[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Oexmelin]

Sure. But We all have our levels of tolerance for that recurring debate. I am assuming Zoupa, now living in BC, gets a somewhat similar level of exhaustion as I have for that sort of comparison.

[HVC]

Distance makes the heart grow harder?

[Oexmelin]

It's mostly that interacting daily as a francophone in English Canada, you fast lose patience for this sort of comparison.

[Malthus]

Why compare it at all? It's the very idea that it's comparable that Zoupa is, rightly, IMO, objecting to.

He can "object" all he likes, and give reasons. There is no reason to get offensive about a political point made in a thread about, well, Canadian politics.

Viper objected, with reasonable points (I don't necessarily agree, but they were reasonable). If you will recall, I was responding to a point made by Viper.

[crazy canuck]

Sure, but in your comment to Viper you suggested that there was a mirror image.  I read Zoupa as reacting to the logical fallacy you were making.  A speaker of a dominant language suggested he needed protection.  The position in Quebec is quite different.  There the issue is the protection of a language from the dominant language which surrounds it.

[Valmy]

Aha! News of CC and Berkut's demise as Languish posters has been greatly exaggerated.

[crazy canuck]

I just dialed back - I have posted in the game thread. 

[Josephus]

I just dialed back - I have posted in the game thread. 

I was starting to think you pulled a BB.

[Barrister]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-ev-mandates-2026-1.6693967

Canada announced that by 2026 20% of all vehicles sold in Canada must be electric.  60% by 2030, and 100% by 2035.

Let me say I am not a coal-roller.  I would love to get an electric vehicle myself.  But these targets just seem insanely ambitious and impractical.


As pointed out in the last six months only 7.2% of vehicles sold were electric.  So in three years the percentage has to triple.  There's just huge manufacturing lag.  I don't think manufacturers are able to ramp up production of electric vehicles that quickly.

Ideally, I want my next vehicle to be an electric truck.  But there's a huge waiting list for F-150 Lightning, Cybertruck is still not for sale, Rivian is not meaningfully for sale, GM's is announced but not yet for sale, and nothing from Stellantis/Dodge so far.

Second, it's not clear how much of an advantage an electric vehicle is for the environment in Alberta.  We've gotten away from coal far faster than I thought we would - but we still burn a lot of coal, and the large majority of our electricity comes from fossil fuels.  I'll concede this is different in jurisdictions with abundant hydro power.

Third, the charging infrastructure is still crap.  There are few stations in Edmonton, and virtually none once you get away from the major cities / major highways.

Fourth - there are just environments where you need the range of gas vehicles.  This is the former Yukoner in me coming out.  It's impossible for me to imagine even in 13 years that you could drive the Alaska Highway (never mind the Dempster highway) in an electric vehicle.  Even in gas vehicles you'll see people load up with extra gas tanks / jerry cans in order to make sure they have enough range.

[Valmy]

Yeah I feel like certain vehicle types could be electric 100% but I am not sure we are quite there with power and range to have no new ice vehicles by 2035, especially with the kind of country Canada is outside of the big cities.

[Grey Fox]

The manufacturers plays a game of hide & seek with jurisdictions that don't include ambitious targets and penalties for not meeting them.

Having actual targets is a necessary steps into forcing them to raise the inventories/deliveries.

Quebec offers generous incentives for electric vehicles, yet the waiting time is about 2 to 3 years. The demand is there, the offer is not because manufacturers are choosing to send the cars somewhere else. The federal government must force their hands. As always.

[viper37]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-ev-mandates-2026-1.6693967

Canada announced that by 2026 20% of all vehicles sold in Canada must be electric.  60% by 2030, and 100% by 2035.

Let me say I am not a coal-roller.  I would love to get an electric vehicle myself.  But these targets just seem insanely ambitious and impractical.


As pointed out in the last six months only 7.2% of vehicles sold were electric.  So in three years the percentage has to triple.  There's just huge manufacturing lag.  I don't think manufacturers are able to ramp up production of electric vehicles that quickly.

Ideally, I want my next vehicle to be an electric truck.  But there's a huge waiting list for F-150 Lightning, Cybertruck is still not for sale, Rivian is not meaningfully for sale, GM's is announced but not yet for sale, and nothing from Stellantis/Dodge so far.

Second, it's not clear how much of an advantage an electric vehicle is for the environment in Alberta.  We've gotten away from coal far faster than I thought we would - but we still burn a lot of coal, and the large majority of our electricity comes from fossil fuels.  I'll concede this is different in jurisdictions with abundant hydro power.

Third, the charging infrastructure is still crap.  There are few stations in Edmonton, and virtually none once you get away from the major cities / major highways.

Fourth - there are just environments where you need the range of gas vehicles.  This is the former Yukoner in me coming out.  It's impossible for me to imagine even in 13 years that you could drive the Alaska Highway (never mind the Dempster highway) in an electric vehicle.  Even in gas vehicles you'll see people load up with extra gas tanks / jerry cans in order to make sure they have enough range.

Does their definition of electric include hybrid or only plug in?  Hybrid could be viable.

As for Alberta's energy production, it's pretty much the choice of the province, they resisted any kind of change as hard as they could.

[HVC]

My concern beyond actual stock being available is that evs still don't like the cold, something canada has plenty of.

[Barrister]

Does their definition of electric include hybrid or only plug in?  Hybrid could be viable.

As for Alberta's energy production, it's pretty much the choice of the province, they resisted any kind of change as hard as they could.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/opinion-alberta-end-coal-power-natural-gas-solar-wind-nuclear-1.6300606

Coal will be gone from our power grid by the end of 2023.

But what further change do you want us to do?  We do not have the hydro potential that a Quebec or BC has.  We're expanding wind and solar (it's up to over 10%), but you still need substantial base-load potential.

So in Alberta that means we're burning natural gas.  Much less emissions than coal - but not zero.

I swear you have this evil bogeyman vision of Alberta in your head that bears little resemblance to the actual location.


And yes I believe plug-in hybrids count.  But if you're in a rural or northern area then really the plug in hybrid just adds extra cost and complexity for a system that you won't meaningfully use.

[Zoupa]

Canada's population is 80% urban, EVs make more sense for them anyway.

The 100% EV is slated for 2035 and we all know it's not gonna be respected anyway, so I think the rural folks will be fine.