Hungarian Politics

[Tamas]

The PM's speech is exactly like the one a year ago: basically that we are a financial colony of the EU, fighting hard for our independence, and to protect the progress we have achieved with the new constitution, against forces of evil repressive backward people, mobilized by the Hungarian opposition.

[The Larch]

-according to the new education bill/law, elementary school students will have to choose between attending either a "morality" class, or faith studies  (not sure on the translation of this - it's when a priest gets a weekly class with children to touch, I mean, educate them in biblical matters). So basically they can get to choose between learning religious stuff from a teacher, or a priest.

Actually that's what we have been having for the last 10 years or so.

You either get a (Catholic) religion class (usually taught by a priest or a nun but sometimes a lay person) or you get an ethics class (which, at least supposedly, teaches about ethical systems from a more neutral perspective). The main problem with that system is that due to peer pressure/conformity, a very small number of students are ever sent by their parents to ethics classes (but that number is increasing), and often there just aren't enough qualified teachers for that.

The upside however is that nothing seems to make young people hate the Catholic religion as much as having to learn it as a class in the public school.

There is now a growing vocal minority that wants to do away with that system and kick religion out of schools - even a lot of Catholics admit that the way it was during the communist era (kids going to religion classes ran by the Catholic church in "Sunday school" type of set up) was preferable. However, since this comes with money (priests and nuns getting paid to be teachers by the state), the greedy priests won't give that one up without a fight.

That's the way it has been done in Spain since the democracy as well, and nowadays the people who attend religious classes are the minority. In my high school they definitely were. They (or rather their parents) are an extremely vocal pressure group, though.

[Zanza]

Most states in Germany have religious education in school, but by teachers, not priests. However, the teachers need to be approved by the Church. You can usually opt out and do something like philosophy/ethics instead.

[Tamas]

Marty's east euro spit on the Goldman thread reminded me about this nazi blog-commenter who polluted most of the political blogs I was reading this last couple of days with his discovery about the French intellectuals who planned to come and support our opposition demo tomorrow.

It was genius. So on the list, there were some peeps with German-sounding names. So he labelled these jews. Than there were like one or two people with Hungarian-descent last names. These weren't jew-sounding, so they were labelled as jews, as surely they changed their family names. There was this one french guy whose name was way too french-sounding for the first two conditions, but it is ok, he claimed that the school this guy teaches at was of a huguenot-jewish foundation some 400 years ago, so clearly the guy is in on the whole conspiration thing.




In general, either the government has lost all blog-commenter's support except for the nazis, or the population is radicalizing faster than I would have thought, as simply there was almost no comments which supported the government, and didn't consist various levels of anti-semitism.

[Sheilbh]

We have Religious Education in High School that you have to do until you're 14 after which it's a choice.  You have to learn a bit about the 6 major faiths and then go in-depth into one (almost always Christianity because that's what the teacher knows) though if you want you can do your own thing.  At primary school, though, RE was taken by the local Kirk Minister and he'd also take assemblies which would involve hymns and that sort of thing.  The worst thing about it was that the Church of Scotland disagrees with set prayers so they sort improvise them, and our Minister's used to go on for ages and there were lots of fidgety unhappy 10 year olds.

Back before I was at school the local Minister was a fierce fire and brimstone Kirk preacher.  So the local Catholic priest used to go to the schools at the same time to take the Catholic kids out for separate RE.  Apparently this started after an unfortunate incident where the RE lesson descended into promises of anti-Roman eternal damnation

On Hungary I'm glad the EUSSR opinions made the bold leap from right-wing British blogs to national politicians:

Hungary prime minister hits out at EU interference in national day speech
Viktor Orbán on collision course with Brussels as his government attempts to revive aid talks to keep Hungary afloat

Share 190  reddit this
Ian Traynor, Europe editor
guardian.co.uk, Thursday 15 March 2012 18.19 GMT
Article history


Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orbán, centre, delivers a speech in front of the parliament building in Budapest. Photograph: Bernadett Szabo/Reuters

Hungary's strongman prime minister, Viktor Orbán, delivered a stinging broadside against Brussels on Thursday, likening EU bureaucracy to Soviet tyranny and casting himself in the mould of Hungarian heroes fighting to free the country from foreign domination since the 19th century.

Locked in dispute with Brussels for more than a year over media freedoms, economic policy, the central bank, and the judiciary, Orbán put himself on a collision course with the EU just as his government is attempting to secure credits of €20bn (£17bn) to keep Hungary afloat.

Addressing tens of thousands of supporters on Hungary's national day, commemorating the 1848-49 uprising against Habsburg rule, the prime minister rounded on eurocrats whom he accused of illegitimate interference in the country.

"We do not need the unsolicited assistance of foreigners wanting to guide our hands," Orbán declared in a reference to Brussels' demands for legal and constitutional changes regulating Hungary's central bank, data protection laws, and the retirement age for judges on the supreme court.

Drawing a clear parallel between Soviet domination of Hungary until 1989 and the behaviour of the European authorities, Orbán said: "We are more than familiar with the character of unsolicited comradely assistance, even if it comes wearing a finely tailored suit and not a uniform with shoulder patches."

Orbán enjoys the strongest democratic mandate in the EU, after a landslide election victory in 2010 that gave his Fidesz party a two-thirds majority in parliament. He has used the mandate to draft and rush through a new Hungarian constitution, crack down on media pluralism, and has been accused of authoritarianism and breaking the laws of the EU, which Hungary joined in 2004.

This week, EU finance ministers said they would withhold half a billion euros in funding for Hungary from next year because it was failing to get its budget deficit under control and violating EU rules on fiscal rigour.

The European commission is also threatening to take Hungary to court for breaching EU law, insisting the country amend its legislation to guarantee the independence of the central bank. The commission is also worried about media censorship and control and at moves to force judges to retire, a policy seen as enabling Orbán to rid himself of opponents in key institutions of power.

On Thursday, the prime minister rounded furiously on EU outsiders demanding changes. "Hungarians will not live as foreigners dictate, will not give up their independence or their freedom, therefore they will not give up their constitution either," he thundered in a speech with strong nationalist overtones.

"Freedom means that we decide about the laws governing our own life, we decide what is important and what isn't. From the Hungarian perspective, with a Hungarian mindset, following the rhythm of our Hungarian hearts. We will not be a colony."

The prime minister traced Hungary's freedom fight through the great revolutions of 1848 against Vienna, of 1956 against Soviet communism, and of 1989 when he played a starring role as a young student anti-communist leader.

The message was that Hungary was once more embroiled in a fight for its freedom and that Orbán was the heir to the heroes of Hungary's history. "In 1848 we said that we should tear down the walls of feudalism and we were proven right. In 1956, we said we have to crack, we have to break the wheels of communism and we were proven right," he declared.

"Today also, they look at us with suspicion. European bureaucrats look at us with distrust today because we said: we need new ways. We said we have to break out of the prison of debt and we also declared that Europe can only be made great again with the help of strong nations. You will see my dear friends that we will be proven right yet again."

On Wednesday, Orbán wrote to the European commission requesting support for his attempts to secure crucial standby credits from the International Monetary Fund.

His speech advocated nationalism, protectionism, and reeked of chippiness, arguing that his country was getting a raw deal in the EU. "We have with us the silently abiding Europe of many tens of millions, who still insist on national sovereignty and still believe in the Christian virtues of courage, honour, fidelity and mercy, which one day made our continent great.

"As a thousand-year-old European nation we have one demand. We demand equal standards for Hungarians. As a European nation we demand equal treatment. We will not be second-class European citizens."

[Martinus]

Can we kick fucking Hungarians out of the EU please?

[Jacob]

Well if Hungary doesn't want to be second class, they shouldn't elect a fourth-class government.

[Zanza]

Have fun being bankrupt.

[alfred russel]

From my favorite lunatic / conspiratorial side (languish excluded), we get the perspective that Orban is actually the democratic hero here (I'm only quoting the first part, the article goes on):

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/will-hungary-be-next-iceland-pm-orban-hungarians-will-not-live-foreigners-dictate

Will Hungary Be The Next Iceland? PM Orban: "Hungarians Will Not Live As Foreigners Dictate"

When it comes to being a NWO debt slave, one can accept their fate demurely and bent over, like a conditionally habituated dog electroshocked into perpetual submission just as the banker elites like it, with threats that the world would end the second one dared to change the status quo (see Greece), or one can do something about being a debt slave. Like Iceland. And then rapidly proceed to be the best performing economy in Europe. And reading some of the latest news out of Hungary, which has to count its lucky stars is not stuck in the inflexible nightmare that is the mercantilist Eurocurrency union, gives us hope that we may soon witness the next sovereign rebellion against the banker yoke. The WSJ reports: "Hungary's premier fired a new broadside in the country's running battle of wills with the European Union, saying that Hungarians should be free to make their own laws without interference from Brussels.  Speaking to a large crowd of supporters celebrating the anniversary of a 19th-century Hungarian revolt against Austrian rule, Prime Minister Viktor Orban said: "Hungarians will not live as foreigners dictate." This has promptly generated the anticipated response from European unelected dictator Barroso, who minutes ago said that Hungary's Orban doesn't get democracy. Oh, we think he does. What he doesn't seem to get, or like, is existence in a banker-governed technocratic, klepto-fascist state, in which the peasantry is merely an intermediary vessel for asset confiscation by insolvent banks. Like Greece... which however already is the butt of all jokes of personal submission to a foreign oppressor, so there is no dignity in kicking a dog that is down.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

the local Kirk Minister

dammit man, you brits are taking this TOS thing way too far 

[Sheilbh]

The FT Brussels Blog has more:

High quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our Ts&Cs and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights. http://blogs.ft.com/brusselsblog/2012/03/the-eu-soviet-barroso-takes-on-hungarys-orban/#ixzz1pJblfR85

[UPDATED] The EU Soviet? Barroso takes on Orban
March 16, 2012 2:17 pm by Peter Spiegel

[UPDATE] We've obtained the English-language version of Orban's March 13 letter to Barroso requesting assistance on reopening talks with the IMF for a line of credit. The letter can be read here. http://blogs.r.ftdata.co.uk/brusselsblog/files/2012/03/OrbanLetter.pdf

The war of words between Brussels and Budapest continued on Friday, with José Manuel Barroso, president of the European Commission, hitting back at Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orban, who a day earlier compared Barroso's Commission to Soviet apparatchiks and Hapsburg imperialists.

Orban's tongue lashing, made at a national day rally in front of thousands in central Budapest, came after a series of recent moves by the Commission, the European Union's executive branch, to sanction the Hungarian government for violating EU rules on deficits and democratic institutions.

Through his spokesperson, Barroso questioned Orban's grasp of democratic principles, a rebuke sure to rankle the Hungarian prime minister, who as a young anti-Communist activist became famous for publicly calling for the withdrawal of the Red Army in 1989.

"Those who compare the European Union with the USSR show a complete lack of understanding of what democracy is, in his view," said the spokesperson, adding she was relating Barroso's personal comments. "They also fail to understand the important contribution of all those who have defended and fought for freedom and democracy."

The rhetorical clash comes less than a week after eurozone finance ministers backed a Commission proposal to withhold €495m in EU development funds next year because of Orban's persistent failure to meet Brussels-mandated deficit targets.
Barroso has launched so-called "infringement proceedings" against Orban for provisions in a newly adopted constitution the Commission believes threaten the independence of Hungary's central bank, judiciary and data-protection agency.

The Hungarian government appeared eager to have Orban's Commission-bashing speech widely disseminated, sending out English and French translations to multiple news outlets in Brussels, even as Orban was seeking Barroso's help to kick-start talks between Budapest and the International Monetary Fund over a line of credit. Barroso has blocked the talks because of the new laws governing the central bank.

For those interested, here is a copy of the excerpts of Orban's speech, as provided by the Hungarian government:

The political and intellectual program of 1848 was this: we will not be a colony! The program and the desire of Hungarians in 2012 goes like this: we will not be a colony!

Hungary could not have stood against the pressure and things dictated from abroad in the winter of 2011-2012 if it were not for those hundreds of thousands of people who stood up to show everyone that Hungarians will not live as foreigners dictate it, will not give up their independence or their freedom, therefore they will not give up their constitution either, which they finally managed to draft after twenty years. Thank you all!

Don't be misled if tomorrow you will read in the international press that there were only a few hundred people here in the square and even those who were here, rallied against the government.

As things stand, we have not been as strong as we are today for long decades.

As things stand today we are enough in numbers and in our resolve to fight for a free Hungarian life also, after fighting for our liberties.

Freedom for us means that we are not inferior to anyone else. It means that we also deserve respect.

Freedom also means that de decide about the laws governing our own life, we decide what is important and what isn't. From the Hungarian perspective, with a Hungarian mindset, following the rhythm of our Hungarian hearts.

Therefore we write our own constitutions. We do not need writing-lines, nor do we require the unsolicited assistance of foreigners wanting to guide our hands.

We are more than familiar with the character of unsolicited comradely assistance, even if it comes wearing a finely tailored suit and not a uniform with shoulder patches. We want Hungary to revolve around its own axis, therefore we are going to protect the constitution, which is the security for our future.

We have to ask and to respond to the biggest question. Will we submit ourselves to being at the mercy of others until death or will we rely on the virtues which make Hungarians Hungarians, which make sovereignty sovereignty and history history. Will we opt for the fate of a colony or for a Hungarian existence made up and made complete according to the best of our knowledge?

There is one thing that no one can question. Our freedom fights always meant a step forward for the world. They meant progress because we were right. We were right even if everyone denied this.

In '48 we said that we should tear down the walls of feudalism and we were proven right. In '56, we said we have to crack, we have to break the wheels of communism and we were proven right.

Today also, they look at us with suspicion. They looked at us like this in '48-'49, when Europe became silent, silent again, but then the feudalist world disintegrated all around Europe and strong nations were born in its place.

They looked at us like this in '56, but the communist tyranny, that we drove the first nail into, finally collapsed, allowing Europe to reunite again.

European bureaucrats look at us with distrust today because we said: we need new ways. We said we have to break out of the prison of debt and we also declared that Europe can only be made great again with the help of strong nations. You will see my dear friends that we will be proven right yet again.

It was not the feudalist vassals who caused the demise of feudalism, nor was communism destroyed by party secretaries. The rule of speculators will not be terminated by them or by bureaucrats, nor will they come help save the ditched carriage of Europe.

It is not going to be them, but instead it is going to be European citizens living off the fruits of their personal efforts. Because their world has to come. If it doesn't, then the days of Europe are over.

The Youth of March also saw, what many in Europe today refuse to see, that financial independence is a precondition for freedom. This is why they had to include the indispensable demand for a National Bank on their 12-point list.

Although the Youth of March were not board members or bankers, they fully understood the weight of the issue of a national bank. They knew that an independent national bank is not one that is independent from its nation. An independent national bank is one, which protects the national economy from foreign interests. They knew and we also know well that anyone with common sense will not entrust the neighbours with the keys to the pantry.

Our Lithuanian, Czech, Latvian, Slovenian and Romanian friends have all stood up for us. Not only did they stand up for us, they also came, our Lithuanian and Polish friends are here to celebrate with us.

Glory to Lithuania! God bless Poland!

We also have with us the silently abiding Europe of many tens of millions, who still insist on national sovereignty and still believe in the Christian virtues of courage, honour, fidelity and mercy, which one day made our continent great.

There are people, there are many people who still remember 56 and think that "you Hungarians were right". We are capable of standing our ground against the injustice of stronger empires. This is why we are respected by those who respect us. This is why we are attacked by those who are against us.

We understand that Europe has a lot of problems. The clog wheels are creaking, muscles and tendons are flexing.

But as a thousand year old European nation we have one demand. We demand equal standards for Hungarians. As a European nation we demand equal treatment. We will not be second class European citizens. Our rightful demand is to have the same standards apply to us, which apply to other countries. We have learnt that the recovery of Europe and Hungary are inseparable from each other. Any time Europe found itself in distress, the fate of Hungary also took a turn for the worse.
We are not happy, but we understand that European unity is not a unity of saints, but we will not sit and watch idly, if any political or intellectual trend tries to force an unholy alliance on Europe.

Europe cannot surrender and give in; the feeling of belonging together may not weaken it any more. This would lead to the defeat and to the demise of Europe. This is why Europe cannot leave whole countries by the roadside.

If we don't act in time, in the end, the whole of Europe can become a colony of the modern financial system.

Jesus

[Ed Anger]

An eggplant lecturing a beet. 

[HVC]

An eggplant lecturing a beet. 

[Tamas]

They are even too lazy to create new internal villains.

Ferenc "omg he admitted he lied" Gyurcsany, the former PM, left the socialist party some months ago, founded a new party, and continues his slide into insignificance.

Now, to stop his new party from forming a faction, a new law will be made to regulate faction-founding, with retrospective effect.

Also, some ex-state official wants him tried with terrorism charges after his comment last week on blockading the Constitutional Court if they don't deal with the appeal his party sent in on who knows what.

Also, the Parlaiment last week decided to investigate the 2006 riots. On the grounds of wether Gyurcsany and the police chiefs committed acts of terrorism during them.

Bluff? By all probability.

But, I read a very good comment regarding Orban and his schenangians with the EU: he keeps raising the ante.
This is very true. After his loss of the PM seat several years, he started to build his support on a state of siege mentality, and the scale of that siege and the enemy just kept growing. Now that he is governing, and the opposition is as weak as it can get without just giving up their seats in Parlaiment, he needs a new enemy, to blame for constant failures and lack of direction - the EU, the big foreign enemies bent on destruction of the Hungarian Way.
Also, after they failed to forge enough evidences for corruption against his arch enemy Gyurcsany, and the socialists in general (of course, the socialists were clever enough to steal money legally), they are now showcasing their crusading spirit through accusations of terrorism. What next? They either stop here and admit defeat, or they will have to act upon this...

[Martinus]

Apparently a bunch of crazy Polish catholic retirees went to Hungary last week to show their support for Orban (PiS sees Fidesz as the ideal they could have been if they haven't been stopped by "freemasons, Jews, liberal media, feminists and fags"). Has it even registered on the news there?