S&P downgrades Greek and Portuguese bonds

[Richard Hakluyt]

For some unfathomable reason my Marston's shares ( http://www.marstons.co.uk/ ) have been performing very badly since this news came out 

I can't see the link at all, Brits are going to respond to a Greek default by not going to the pub anymore? Rather farfetched 

Does Marston have any exposure to the euro? If the euro goes in the tank, that is going to hurt their bottom line when reported in pounds.

It is an almost completely domestic company, directly and indirectly running pubs throughout the country and brewing a lot of real ale. It probably supplies some bottled beer to foreign beer-lovers, but the quantity must be minute.

What they are doing though is snapping up prime city centre sites and developing new pubs on them; so their debt exposure is high; perhaps the feeling is that much increased interest rates in the UK are only a matter of time given the circumstances 

[Legbiter]

Can Greece withstand another day of massive capital flight like this one?  At least it'll be much more expensive to bail them out now than it would have been just a week ago. There will be a run on Greek banks tomorrow if it isn't underway already.

[Savonarola]

Saw this on the BEEB Website:

[alfred russel]

Instead of bailouts, wouldn't it be much cheaper just to make the rating agencies assign a higher grade to Greece, Portugal, and Spain?

Coupled with cracking down on speculative attacks Greece and Portugal have been complaining about, and all the problems should be solved.

[Legbiter]

Portugal and Spain could be next if the EU shrugs their shoulders and leaves the Greeks to default and/or exit the euro.

[Martinus]

I wonder if Greece will be the Eurozone's "Lehman's" - the first one allowed to fall so that the other governments expecting the bailout will know they can't be getting golden parachutes?

I love how fucking Greeks are going on strike against budget cuts and whatnot - a bunch of cheaters and thieves.

[DGuller]

I wonder if Greece will be the Eurozone's "Lehman's" - the first one allowed to fall so that the other governments expecting the bailout will know they can't be getting golden parachutes?

I love how fucking Greeks are going on strike against budget cuts and whatnot - a bunch of cheaters and thieves.

Hopefully not, considering that Lehman collapse led to a complete collapse of the financial system, and ultimately resulted in even bigger bailouts.

[Martinus]

Still, I'd like to see Greeks being left to hang themselves. These motherfuckers are the worst lot in Europe - not only a bunch of cheaters and lazy bums, they are also constantly creating problems and international disputes over some shitty rocks, names of neighbouring countries or whether Alexander the Great fucked guys.

[Ed Anger]

Still, I'd like to see Greeks being left to hang themselves. These motherfuckers are the worst lot in Europe - not only a bunch of cheaters and lazy bums, they are also constantly creating problems and international disputes over some shitty rocks, names of neighbouring countries or whether Alexander the Great fucked guys.

And Gaylord shows up.

[garbon]

I told my mother the other day that my dream is to visit the UK and meet an actual gay lord.

[Palisadoes]

I told my mother the other day that my dream is to visit the UK and meet an actual gay lord.

Peter Mandelson?

Oh, and Spain has now been downgraded too.

Farewell, Eurozone!

[jimmy olsen]

Things are rather hectic here.

And they're real bad. Far worse than any of you imagine.

Currently, Greece and Portugal will be bailed out by Germany. What the Germans think doesn't matter.

The contagion is real and spreading. A spanish crisis is almost sure (got their rating cut today) and their bailout will push the Germans to the limit.

And there are even more countries on the edge.

Why is a Spanish crisis a sure thing? There level of debt to GDP isn't anywhere close to that of Greece or Italy IIRC.

[Martim Silva]

Why is a Spanish crisis a sure thing? There level of debt to GDP isn't anywhere close to that of Greece or Italy IIRC.

The GDP/debt ratio is really misleading. It is used by politicians like Zapatero to fool the regular folks who have no financial culture.

The key is weather the market has confidence or not that a country can honour its debts.

If a nation has a high public deficit, combined with low to no growth (or is in a recession), the market will charge an ever increasing interest for the bonds the country issues.

If its costs start to eat away at its ability to pay back the bonds, and nothing serious is done, then the market will raise its prices until the nation is effectively shut out of the bond market, or left to pay prohibitive interest.

When that happens, the nation stops being able to borrow. If it cannot borrow, it cannot redeem its bonds.

If it cannot redeem its bonds, it has to default (i.e. go bankrupt).

This can happen if you owe 10% of GDP or 300% of GDP.

To go bust you only need to be in debt.

[Tamas]

I share's Marty's sentiment over the Greeks.

Fucking lazy mofos with like 40% of the workforce in the public sector, they thought they will be able to operate their country on foreign money forever. Fuck them let them burn in Zimbabwe hell.

[Ed Anger]

I share's Marty's sentiment over the Greeks.

Fucking lazy mofos with like 40% of the workforce in the public sector, they thought they will be able to operate their country on foreign money forever. Fuck them let them burn in Zimbabwe hell.

He'll survive on potatoes and hunks of black bread, you have your wagon and beets.