House to vote on health care reform Sunday.

[Neil]

There is no war against al-Qaeda.

[Faeelin]

Realistically speaking, what is far more important than any legal argument is what Justice Kennedy will have had for breakfast the day he casts the tiebreaker.  He will weigh between his desire to defer to Congress and the unprecedented powergrab by the gov't, while considering the unpopularity of the bill.  The four conservative justices will fall back on the Constitution to oppose it, while the four left-wing justices believe that the only limits on gov't power are in the bedroom and in the prosecution of war against Al Qaeda.

As I noted a few pages ago:

WASHINGTON — More Americans now favor than oppose the health care overhaul that President Obama signed into law Tuesday, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds — a notable turnaround from surveys before the vote that showed a plurality against the legislation.

By 49%-40%, those polled say it was "a good thing" rather than a bad one that Congress passed the bill. Half describe their reaction in positive terms — as "enthusiastic" or "pleased" — while about four in 10 describe it in negative ways, as "disappointed" or "angry."

But it's a pity we don't have the old board's archives around, because the fact that you are complaining about unpopular legislation passed by 60 senators and the House, and are hoping that the Supreme Court will engage in some weird jujitsu where it pretends that health are isn't a commercial activity is fantastic.

[Hansmeister]

Realistically speaking, what is far more important than any legal argument is what Justice Kennedy will have had for breakfast the day he casts the tiebreaker.  He will weigh between his desire to defer to Congress and the unprecedented powergrab by the gov't, while considering the unpopularity of the bill.  The four conservative justices will fall back on the Constitution to oppose it, while the four left-wing justices believe that the only limits on gov't power are in the bedroom and in the prosecution of war against Al Qaeda.

As I noted a few pages ago:

WASHINGTON — More Americans now favor than oppose the health care overhaul that President Obama signed into law Tuesday, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds — a notable turnaround from surveys before the vote that showed a plurality against the legislation.

By 49%-40%, those polled say it was "a good thing" rather than a bad one that Congress passed the bill. Half describe their reaction in positive terms — as "enthusiastic" or "pleased" — while about four in 10 describe it in negative ways, as "disappointed" or "angry."

But it's a pity we don't have the old board's archives around, because the fact that you are complaining about unpopular legislation passed by 60 senators and the House, and are hoping that the Supreme Court will engage in some weird jujitsu where it pretends that health are isn't a commercial activity is fantastic.

It was a crap poll of "Adults", which generally means it is worthless, none of the other polls show this.

[Hansmeister]

Not really.  Indeed, the law was put in place in order to leave the regulation to the States in the first place.  Congress could have opened up the interstate market but didn't  Congress is trying to have it both ways.  Currently, there is no interstate market, thus nothing for Congress to regulate by the Constitution.  If Congress created an interstate market they then would have the power to regulate the interstate market they created.

How does flood insurance fall with the Interstate Commerce thing?  Homeowners insurance can't be sold across state lines, and yet we have a federal program that takes care of the flood hazard regardless.  Is the gov't flood insurance unconstitutional?

Does the gov't mandate that everybody buy flood insurance whether they want to or not?  The federal gov't can spend their tax revenue pretty much as it likes (though technically, yes, that is unconstitutional), but you're comparing apples to oranges.  Does the federal gov't dictate to the States how to run flood insurance, or does it incetivise the States to adhere to federal guidelines like they do with so much else?

[Eddie Teach]

It was a crap poll of "Adults", which generally means it is worthless, none of the other polls show this.

Yeah, the kids who vote in the normal polls all hate health care because it means they'd have to go to the doctor's. 

[citizen k]

As I noted a few pages ago:

WASHINGTON — More Americans now favor than oppose the health care overhaul that President Obama signed into law Tuesday, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds — a notable turnaround from surveys before the vote that showed a plurality against the legislation.

By 49%-40%, those polled say it was "a good thing" rather than a bad one that Congress passed the bill. Half describe their reaction in positive terms — as "enthusiastic" or "pleased" — while about four in 10 describe it in negative ways, as "disappointed" or "angry."

It's time for poll wars:

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/poll_health_care_032410_7am.pdf

Poll: Most Want GOP to Keep Fighting on Health Bill

CBS News Poll analysis by the CBS News Polling Unit: Sarah Dutton, Jennifer De Pinto, Fred Backus and Anthony Salvanto.


A CBS News poll released Wednesday finds that nearly two in three Americans want Republicans in Congress to continue to challenge parts of the health care reform bill.

The Senate version of the legislation was passed by the House Sunday night, and President Obama signed it into law on Tuesday. The House also passed a separate reconciliation bill, which cannot be filibustered, that is now being debated in the Senate. That bill would make changes to the bill already signed into law.

Senate Republicans are now challenging whether the bill is truly a budget reconciliation bill (which is what makes it filibuster-proof) and inserting amendments designed to slow down passage. Republican attorneys general are also planning to challenge the constitutionality of the law.

The poll finds that 62 percent want Congressional Republicans to keep challenging the bill, while 33 percent say they should not do so. Nearly nine in ten Republicans and two in three independents want the GOP to keep challenging. Even 41 percent of Democrats support continued challenges.

Americans are split about the fact that the bill largely lacked bipartisan support. Fifty percent said they were disappointed that the bill did not have support from both parties, while 44 percent said that it doesn't matter.

Most see the bill as an important achievement for the president. Fifty-two percent called passage a major accomplishment for Mr. Obama, up from 46 percent before Sunday's vote. Thirteen percent called it a minor accomplishment, and 32 percent said passage was not an accomplishment.

For the new poll, CBS News re-interviewed 649 adults interviewed just before the House vote in a CBS News poll conducted March 18-21. The findings suggest an improvement in perceptions of the legislation: While 37 percent approved of it before the vote, 42 percent approved afterward.

Still, there was significant disapproval for the bill. Forty-six percent say they disapprove, including 32 percent who strongly disapprove. Those numbers have barely moved since before the bill was signed.

Americans also did not significantly change their views on the impact of the bill. Thirty percent still say it will make the health care system better, while 33 percent say it will make the system worse.

They have also held relatively firm in their perceptions of how the bill will effect them. Sixteen percent say the bill will "mostly help," while 35 percent say it will "mostly hurt." Both of those numbers are down slightly from before the vote. Forty-three percent now say the bill will have "no effect," an increase of eight points.

A majority of Americans continue to say that they find the bill to be confusing and do not understand what it means for them or their family.

Passage of the bill did seem to improve perceptions of Democrats in Congress. Thirty-eight percent now say they approve of Congressional Democrats, up from 29 percent before the vote. Fifty-six percent disapprove. The approval rating for Republicans in Congress has held roughly steady at just 25 percent. About one in two Americans call passage of the bill a major accomplishment for the Democratic Party.

There has also been a boost in perceptions of President Obama's handling of the issue. Before the vote, his approval rating on handling health care was 41 percent; afterward, it was 47 percent. His disapproval rating fell from 51 percent to 48 percent.

About one in two Americans say Mr. Obama has kept a campaign promise in getting the legislation passed. Forty-three percent, including three in four Republicans and a slim majority of independents, say he has forced through an unpopular agenda.

Six in ten Americans say they expected the bill to pass, while 36 percent say they were surprised it got through Congress. Seventeen percent now say they are "more optimistic about Washington" as a result of the effort to pass the bill, up from 12 percent before the vote. A majority still say the vote made them more pessimistic about Washington.

Despite a Congressional Budget Office analysis finding that the bill will ultimately lower the budget deficit by $143 billion over the first ten years and $1.2 trillion dollars in the second ten years, 57 percent of those surveyed, including most Republicans and independents, say the bill will increase the deficit. Just 18 percent say it will decrease the deficit.

This poll was conducted by telephone on March 22-23, 2010 among 649 adults first interviewed by CBS News March 18-21, 2010. Phone numbers were dialed from samples of both standard land-line and cell phones. The error due to sampling for results based on the entire sample could be plus or minus four percentage points. The error for subgroups is higher. This poll release conforms to the Standards of Disclosure of the National Council on Public Poll

[Fate]

This is excellent news for John McCain.

[Martinus]

Only because the public wants Republicans to "keep challenging" the bill does not mean they want them to succeed. 

[Eddie Teach]

This is excellent news for John McCain.

He and Palin kept warning us about Obama's socialism but we didn't listen.

[derspiess]

Only because the public wants Republicans to "keep challenging" the bill does not mean they want them to succeed. 

Right, because 'the public' is that crafty.

[The Minsky Moment]

Please see my responses to Marty and grumber above.  Truancy is state or local jurisdiction.  The census and tax returns are covered by specifically enumerated powers of Congress.

First of all, as stated, these were just illustrative examples.  Businesses are subjected to all sorts of mandates and reporting under the Commerce clause, such as the securities laws, environmental compliance, ERISA, medical privacy, compliance with immigration laws, and so on.  A reporting entity under any of manifold regulations cannot defend itself by simply pointing to a failure to act.  Regulation of commerce necessarily includes the power to mandate certain actions in order to make the regulatory scheme effective.

Second of all, you are mistaken - neither the census clause nor the taxing clause directly gives Congress the power to require that citizens report on a form, much less the power to sanction for non-compliance.   The census clause just says that an "enumeration" shall be made every ten years in a manner directed by Congress.  It does not directly grant the power to mandate that citizens fill out census forms, much less state that Congress can provide for a sanction if it wishes.  The same is true for taxes - the text simply gives Congress the power to levy taxes (and after amendment, income taxes without apportionment) - but there is nothing in the text giving Congress the power to require filing returns or to require turning over personal or corporate financial information.

The power to do all these things comes from the application of Necessary and Proper Clause to these enumerated powers.  The power to conduct a census would not be effective without the power to require citizens to respond.  The power to tax income would not be effective without the power to require citizens and business to report their income and provide other related information.  By the same token, the power to regulate commerce necessarily includes the power to impose mandates to help effectuate that regulation.  if you deny that power, you deny the others as well.

I have a question for you (or anyone else): what powers does Congress *not* have, besides those proscribed in the Bill of Rights?

The limits of the Commerce Clause power are now fairly clear and have been set out in a series of Supreme Court decisions (starting with Lopez).  The regulation in question must be economic in nature and must impact significantly on interstate commerce, unless the regulation "is necessary to make a regulation of interstate commerce effective" (From Scalia's concurrence in Raich).  For example, a law prohibiting a person from carrying a weapon within a certain distance of a school is not a valid exercise of the commerce power because merely carrying a gun is not a commercial activity and carrying a gun near a school has no interstate character.  Nor is such a law required to effectuate any broader scheme of interstate commercial regulation.

Under these well-established and long-standing constitutional principles, this law is not even a close case.  The market for health care services may be the single largest complex of interstate commercial activity in the country.  Congress has decided to regulate that market.  A law to regulate that market falls in very core of the commerce power.  The centerpiece of the regulatory scheme is pooling of risk and blocking adverse selection and free riding.  A mandate is both necessary and proper to carrying out the regulatory scheme.  Thus, the constituonality of the mandate is plain as day under the Necessary and Proper Clause.

If one were to say otherwise, the entire system of federal commercial regulation would collapse (in the minds of some -- such as those backing these lawsuits - perhaps a desirable objective).  All that would be left would be direct regulations of the instrumentalities of commerce, because once recourse to the Necesary and Proper clause is blocked, that is all that is left of the Commerce Clause power.  Securities law, antitrust law, federal environmental law, most of federal criminal law, large swaths of civil rights law, etc. would all fall.

[The Minsky Moment]

Does the gov't mandate that everybody buy flood insurance whether they want to or not?  The federal gov't can spend their tax revenue pretty much as it likes (though technically, yes, that is unconstitutional), but you're comparing apples to oranges.  Does the federal gov't dictate to the States how to run flood insurance, or does it incetivise the States to adhere to federal guidelines like they do with so much else?

You missed the point - under your argument, flood insurance is purely intrastate and thus the feds can't do *anything* about it.  The taxing power doesn't give the feds some additional magic powers to spend the money it raises to pursue unconstitutional objectives, as you (for once) correctly observe.

In reality of course, flood waters have a bad habit of not politely ceasing to flow when they reach a state line, so the provision and regulation of flood insurance is  something well within the reach of federal commerce powers.

[Razgovory]

Huh.  Someone shot a bullet through Eric Cantor's office window.

[MadImmortalMan]

Huh.  Someone shot a bullet through Eric Cantor's office window.

A drive-by at his Richmond office according to a press statement. I doubt he was there.

[KRonn]

Is the US coming close to a start on achieving third world political status?   

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/25/congress.threats/index.html?hpt=T1

House GOP leader says bullet fired into office after health care vote


Washington (CNN) -- Rep. Eric Cantor, the No. 2 Republican in the House of Representatives, said Thursday that a bullet had been fired through a window at his district office in Richmond, Virginia. He also said he had received threatening messages.

He said he would not publicly release the messages out of concern that doing so would only incite further violence.

He also accused Democratic National Committee Chairman Tim Kaine and Rep. Chris Van Hollen of Maryland -- a member of the Democratic House leadership -- of "fanning the flames" of violence by using threats that have been made against Democratic members "as political weapons."

"Enough is enough," Cantor said. "It has to stop."

Democratic National Committee spokesman Brad Woodhouse hit back against Cantor's claims.

"We disagree with the charge made by Rep. Cantor today that Democrats are using acts of violence for political gain," he said. "Let's be clear: Calling on Republican leaders who have contributed in part to this anger by wildly mischaracterizing the substance and motives of health reform to condemn these acts is entirely appropriate."

More than 10 Democrats have reported trouble since the weekend health care vote, House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Maryland, told reporters Wednesday.

Windows have been smashed at Democratic offices in at least three states, and federal agents are investigating whether a cut gas line at the home of a Virginia congressman's brother was related to the lawmaker's yes vote.

Democratic congressional leaders have demanded Republicans join them in condemning a spate of threats and vandalism that has followed Sunday's vote on a sweeping overhaul of the U.S. health care system.

The FBI is now looking into the threats, and at least 10 House Democrats have been given extra security.

The threats are especially vicious for Michigan's Bart Stupak, who switched his vote to seal the deal for the bill. He has released a threatening voice mail that he received.

"Stupak, you are a lowlife, baby-murdering scumbag, pile of steaming crap. You're a cowardly punk, Stupak, that's what you are. You and your family are scum," an unidentified caller said. "That's what you are, Stupak. You are a piece of crap."

"Go to hell, you piece of [expletive deleted]" another called said.

Read more about Stupak's political future

In Virginia, Albemarle County fire marshals and the FBI are looking into the slashing of a propane gas line outside the home of Rep. Tom Perriello's brother, the congressman's office said.

A Perriello aide told CNN that the line to a propane tank on the brother's gas grill had been severed after the brother's home address was posted online by a Tea Party activist. Lee Catlin, a spokesman for the fire marshal's office, said the incident "did not involve an immediate threat to occupants of the residence" but would disclose no details.

The county joined the investigation late Tuesday after a request from the FBI, Caitlin said. "Officials are taking the incident very seriously and conducting a vigorous investigation," he said.

On Sunday, Democratic Rep. Russ Carnahan of Missouri had a coffin placed on his lawn, said his spokeswoman, Sarah Howard. She said Tea Party protesters at his office in St. Louis had a coffin with them and later brought it to his house. The coffin was later removed, she said.

House Democratic Majority Whip James Clyburn, who is African-American, said he has received a fax in his office with a picture of a noose drawn on it and had threatening telephone calls at his home.

iReport: 'A very dangerous time for Obama,' Dem leaders

"We're giving aid and comfort to these people, and this stuff gets ratcheted up," Clyburn told CNN. "We in this Congress have got to come together in a bipartisan way and tamp this foolishness down. It doesn't make sense. That's not what a democracy is all about."

Rep. Louise Slaughter, D-New York, said a brick was thrown through a window at her Niagara Falls district office, and a message that referred to "snipers" was left at one of her campaign offices. In a written statement, she said GOP leaders have been "fanning the flames with coded rhetoric."

Slaughter said federal agents and local authorities were investigating the threat and vandalism at her offices.

The top Republican in the House, Minority Leader John Boehner, told reporters that he has urged opponents to demonstrate legally.

"I've made statements that I understand people are angry, but violence and threats are inappropriate and irresponsible," the Ohio congressman said. "If people are angry, they ought to register to vote and get involved in a campaign."

But Boehner, who compared the legislation's passage to "Armageddon," said Democrats had not complained to him that Republicans haven't been quick enough to condemn the threats and vandalism.

Democratic officials and liberal Web sites are also upset that Sarah Palin used an image of crosshairs in a Facebook post this week listing 20 vulnerable Democrats who voted for the legislation. She plans to target them this election year with money from her political action committee.

Palin's team is fighting claims that she is encouraging threats of violence. One House member mentioned her Facebook posting during a Wednesday meeting on safety concerns, a Democratic source told CNN's Dana Bash. Mention of the map brought audible groans to the room, the source said.

An adviser to Palin responded by pointing to several instances in which the former Alaska governor has urged supporters to focus their energies on civil debate and action at the ballot box, not extremist activities.

Read more about Palin's targeting effort

The white-hot rhetoric that dominated the last several months of debate on the historic health care bill culminated in unruly protests by the Tea Party movement at the Capitol over the weekend.

Three African-American House Democrats, including civil rights leader Rep. John Lewis of Georgia, reported protesters shouted racial slurs at them and spat at one of them, while Rep. Barney Frank, D-Massachusetts, an openly gay House member, had anti-gay slurs yelled at him.

Republican House members encouraged protesters outside and inside the House gallery, some of whom carried messages like "Vote no or else" or "If Brown won't stop it, a Browning will" -- a reference to newly elected Massachusetts Sen. Scott Brown accompanied by a silhouette of a pistol.

Since the vote, an Alabama blogger has launched a "window war" against Democrats and has kept a tally of the recent incidents of damage.

And conservative talk show host Glenn Beck told his radio audience Monday that Democrats who supported the bill would be remembered as "an enemy of the republic" and "an enemy to the Constitution."

But he urged viewers of his Fox News television show Wednesday to avoid violence, because "radical" supporters of the Obama administration are counting on such attacks to discredit their opposition, he said.

"Not only is it completely nuts and wrong, it's exactly what they want," Beck said. He told viewers, "They are begging for it. You are being set up."

But in Kansas, Democrats in Wichita are seeking to raise money over a brick thrown through the window of the party headquarters.

"At first, we thought our office was just the object of a random act of bitter violence, but now we know that's not the case," the Sedgewick County Democratic Party's Web site said. "This attack was instigated, encouraged and directed by an ultra-right wing blogger and similar events occurred all over the country."

The Web site item asked for donations to "help us get back to work."