Dems agree to drop full-blown public option

[Sheilbh]

Do you know if that cost gets included in the total health care spending numbers that get thrown around?

I think that's generally included in the cost of higher education spending

[KRonn]

Looks like you guys are having a more efficient debate on health care than our highly esteemed Congress!! Hmmm....Must be that the Senate bill needs another thousand pages of fine print that no one can read, understand or decipher, in order to come to the same conclusions and ideas that some of you all have!   

[DGuller]

DGuller, question for you.  How costly is actuarial work?  Would it contribute significantly to the difference in overhead?

Reason I ask is Medicare doesn't do any.

It's pretty costly on a per-person basis, but I have no idea how much it adds up to on a total basis.  I doubt it's more than a trivial amount, though, because there just aren't that many actuaries.

I'll try to make a very basic, conservative estimate, however.  The SOA directory shows that there are 139 credentialed actuaries working at CIGNA.  Let's around it up to 400, to account for uncredentialed actuaries and actuarial analysts.  Let's also say that the average cost of employing those 400 people is $200,000 per year. 

The total comes out to $80 million a year.  I'll round it up to $150 mil just to be uber-conservative, maybe all the support services that actuaries need to work cost a fortune as well.  Looking at CIGNA's income statement at Yahoo, their total revenue totaled $19 billion.  So by a very conservative estimate actuaries cost CIGNA about 0.5-1% of their total revenue.

[Admiral Yi]

I think that's generally included in the cost of higher education spending

If we're comparing apples to apples it should be included in health care.

(Thanks DGuller)

[Sheilbh]

If we're comparing apples to apples it should be included in health care.

Why, is the cost of public higher education in the US counted as health spending for doctors?

[Admiral Yi]

Why, is the cost of public higher education in the US counted as health spending for doctors?

No, and neither is it anywhere else.

Newly minted MDs with zero education debt to amortize are going to affect the supply side.

[Sheilbh]

No, and neither is it anywhere else.

Newly minted MDs with zero education debt to amortize are going to affect the supply side.

Remember I'm thick and then try this again please

[Iormlund]

Sheilbh, Yi is saying that the consumer pays US dcotors' education through higher salaries after they start working, so they are in the books as a healthcare cost, while in here they are counted toward higher education, distorting the figures.

[Admiral Yi]

Sheilbh, Yi is saying that the consumer pays US dcotors' education through higher salaries after they start working, so they are in the books as a healthcare cost, while in here they are counted toward higher education, distorting the figures.

Didn't I just say that?

[grumbler]

Interesting question, then, Yi:  does the amount of money the US government pays medical schools NOT to fill all of their places come out of healthcare costs, or education costs?

And is this amount (and the amount that would be spent on medical education or is spent now to repay loans) even significant when compared to the $2.5+ trillion spent in the US on health care?

[Fate]

The average debt is $154,067 and there's roughly 20,000 medical students graduating every year. Three billion dollars? Perhaps it contributes, but I doubt it's a huge factor.

[grumbler]

The average debt is $154,067 and there's roughly 20,000 medical students graduating every year. Three billion dollars? Perhaps it contributes, but I doubt it's a huge factor.

Danke.

[jimmy olsen]

Interesting question, then, Yi:  does the amount of money the US government pays medical schools NOT to fill all of their places come out of healthcare costs, or education costs?

Why would it pay schools not to fill all their places? 

[Sheilbh]

Newly minted MDs with zero education debt to amortize are going to affect the supply side.

Oh.  British doctors have about $60 000 education debt, maybe more.  Though I think they get extra support from the NHS if they sign a contract to work for them for x number of years with no private practice (dentists have to work for the NHS for 2 years if they get public support) in a similar way to the military giving an engineer funding in exchange to enlisting for a number of years.

[grumbler]

Why would it pay schools not to fill all their places? 

Good question.  Ask the AMA.