Obama's Strategy Shift in Afghanistan

[Berkut]

IIRC there was a plan for turning Afghan poppy cultivation to legal morphine production («Poppy for medecine» or something approaching) for export but that it was fought by the major pharmaceuticals.

Is there enough demand demand for morphine for the quantity in question?

[Martinus]

Legalizing drugs might be a good idea - but not as a response to terrorists being the supplier.

Well, we need to identify what the problem here is - whether we don't want Afghanis to grow poppy because we don't like drugs, or whether we don't want them to do it because it enriches the terrorists.

If it is the latter, then just buy it from them and sell, legalized, eliminating the terrorist middleman (and similarly, other criminal middlemen).

If however it is done in the name of the unreasonable "war on drugs", then don't expect to be able to come up with a sensible solution to something that is, ultimately, a nonsense. GIGO.

[Martinus]

Why are people here afraid of burning the poppy fields?

Burning is good. It would ridicalize the situation.
- The people that are growing poppy are already talibani supporters.
- The hit on the taliban income will be sizeable.
- It would clearly separate the people that are working to rebuilt Afghanistan from the ones perpetuating the conflict.
- It would be an step towards restoring the rule of law.

Whenever I read your posts, I need to fight down a sudden urge to start supporting anyone trying to push Israel back into the sea. People like you are the reason why this region is a fucking mess. Shut up.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Something to keep in mind is the situation in which opium cultivation accounts for something like 35% of the Afghan economy and the lion's share of its agriculture is most likely not sustainable.  There is speculation that the only reason the price of the product has remained so high is the criminal elements that buy the rare goods and eventually make heroin with it have been stockpiling the opium as a hedge against price fluctuations and in order to restrict supply and keep the market price high. 

Burning the fields is actually more problematic when you factor in that many of the warlords who rule Afghanistan are our allies; it isn't only the Taliban that are making billions off of the opium trade, so are some of the warlords who we consider to be our allies.  If I had to guess, if opium is grown in "your" territory you are the one who buys it from the farmer and are the one who takes care of the smuggling (or you have it taken care of through some sort of intermediary criminal enterprise.)  My understanding is only about 20% of the actual proceeds go to the farmers, the rest is primarily eaten up by the warlords who don't actually grow the crop but totally control the trade in their spheres of power.

The alternative to field burning would be to legalize Afghan opium for pharmaceutical use.  This would instantly destroy the black market and the profits of everyone involved from the farmer up through the warlord.  The assumption being the price will rapidly decrease to a more realistic level if it was a legal commodity.  Even then we'd be looking at the public relations problem of being responsible for crushing the Afghan economy and destroying the profits of all of the Afghans tied up in the opium business (estimated to be 10% of their population.)

[Martinus]

Incidentally, exactly the same problem applies to the coca leaves plantations in South America, including how keeping it illegal fills the pockets of the criminal warlords there (and pushes the locals into their open arms).

It's amazing to which lengths the West is willing to adopt an economically moronic policy that destroys local economies and makes locals our enemies just to accommodate the all-powerful tobacco and liquor industries.

[DisturbedPervert]

You think the reason for US drug policy is because of Budweiser and Phillip Morris?

[Lettow77]

Siegey, im not sure your opinion can be counted on to take the welfare of the afghanis themselves into account. The things you said are true, but it is a disaster for the farmers/people of afghanistan, and this is not 'winning hearts and minds'.

What you are suggesting may seem more viable as an israeli who sees every muslim by default as an enemy, but that is not necissarily the case- until we start attacking the common man's livelihood.

I tend to agree with those who say the opium should be legalised.

[saskganesh]

for the record, I know one poppy farm in canada. http://www.izmirpoppy.com/

vancouver also has a number of  backyards where poppy is more or less openly grown.

all for "ornamentals" of course.

[Admiral Yi]

Poppy must be legal somewhere.  Else how do they make lemon poppy seed cake?

[saskganesh]

imports of seeds are legal, usually turkey or tasmanian sources.

tip: the seeds may or not be sterilised, so poppy from your spice rack, if fresh, may actually grow into plants.

[Fate]

Legalizing drugs might be a good idea - but not as a response to terrorists being the supplier.

What about when it's your warlord allies who are the suppliers?

[Iormlund]

What would be the alternative to burning the fields?  Buy up all the harvest?

Heroin is a much bigger problem in Europe than it is in the US.  Let them come up with a solution.

Is it? I did know a heroine addict back in the day. He died before turning 18. OD, of course. But that was during the 90s and he was a pariah who had ran from home when he was just 13 yo.

I've met dozens of drug users since, none has used heroine. It's all about designer drugs and cocaine.

[Admiral Yi]

Is it? I did know a heroine addict back in the day. He died before turning 18. OD, of course. But that was during the 90s and he was a pariah who had ran from home when he was just 13 yo.

I've met dozens of drug users, none since has used heroine. It's all about designer drugs and cocaine.

I think I read a while back that the number of heroin users in Europe is several orders of magnitude higher than in the US.

[Iormlund]

Interesting.

I guess I could see some of that happening in gypsy settlements and similar marginal areas. I know they had a big heroine problem back in the day.

[Admiral Yi]

Maybe it's more of a Northern Yuropean thing?  Anecdotally there's (was?) shooters' parks in Switzerland and elsewhere, plus movie references from a number of countries.