Roman Polanski arrested in Zürich

[Berkut]

I'm bored, and don't wanna read 26 pages. So can someone sum it up and tell me who defended a man who drugged and forced himself on a thirteen year old girl?

France, Anne Applebaum,  and Whoopi Goldberg.

Oh fuck off already.

France has been harboring the guy for the last 30 years.

Whatever.

Whatever? What does that mean? Am I incorrect? Or does it not really matter that France has protected a guy who admitted to raping a 13 year old girl fro several decades? Does that not qualify as "defending" him?

[The Minsky Moment]

It depends where they're at in the process.  Did they merely have a deal, but nothing had been done?  Or had some steps been taken to implement the deal (namely: had he entered the guilty plea in court yet).

If the guilty plea has been proferred he's probably stuck with it.

There is a transcript of his guilty plea made in court (and it includes the information that he knew fully well that she was thirteen).  The judge makes it clear, though, that if the court decides not to accept the plea bargain, then Polanski could withdraw his plea of guilty and go to trial with the presumption of innocence.

There is a distinction however from the plea itself and the sentencing recommendation.  The judge can decide to reject the plea bargain, which means the original (harsher) charges are reinstated, and then the defendant can withdraw and go to trial.  But the judge can also accept the plea but yet reject the sentencing recommendation of the DA (and/or the Probation Department).  If that happens, there usually is no right to withdraw the plea.

[Martinus]

The flight carries max 1 year.

The sentencing on the original conviction is up in the air.  Presumably Polanski will get the opportunity to pursue his bias claim re the now dead original judge.

From what I've read, the "bias" issue stems on the ex parte discussions of the judge at the time and the prosecutor;  apparently it's a long shot to dismiss charges based solely on ex parte discussions of 2/3rds of the party, particularly AFTER the plea agreement.

Usually you argue bias if you're trying to get the judge thrown off the case.  I'm not sure how much utility these is in playing the bias card when the judge is already dead.

I think the bias is not used to argue his case today but to justify him fleeing, since he feared that the judge's bias will cause him to renege the plea bargain. I may be wrong, but I thought the judge was still alive when Polanski fled.

[Martinus]

It depends where they're at in the process.  Did they merely have a deal, but nothing had been done?  Or had some steps been taken to implement the deal (namely: had he entered the guilty plea in court yet).

If the guilty plea has been proferred he's probably stuck with it.

There is a transcript of his guilty plea made in court (and it includes the information that he knew fully well that she was thirteen).  The judge makes it clear, though, that if the court decides not to accept the plea bargain, then Polanski could withdraw his plea of guilty and go to trial with the presumption of innocence.

There is a distinction however from the plea itself and the sentencing recommendation.  The judge can decide to reject the plea bargain, which means the original (harsher) charges are reinstated, and then the defendant can withdraw and go to trial.  But the judge can also accept the plea but yet reject the sentencing recommendation of the DA (and/or the Probation Department).  If that happens, there usually is no right to withdraw the plea.

Or that. Essentially, Polanski knew that if the judge wanted to, he had procedural ways to fuck him up and the result would be a much longer sentence than the 40 or 96 or whatever days.

[Jaron]

Are you now advocating his release? I can't feel too sympathetic if the justice system failed a man who commited a crime like this.

[Martinus]

Are we sure that he fled the prospect of only 48 days, or is that figure a result of misunderstanding the facts somewhere?

This is a misunderstanding.

[Martinus]

Are you now advocating his release? I can't feel too sympathetic if the justice system failed a man who commited a crime like this.

Not really. I am simply saying that he had reasons to flee that go beyond spending 96 days in jail as some people here seem to imply.

[Tamas]

I really hate to say it but this is a serious self-induced implosion of moral authority by a considerable part of the European and American artistic community. There are individual voices of reason, but most are just fucking nuts.

They have always been nuts you just did not see it before.

[Duque de Bragança]

I think the comment from the French official about how this illustrates the "two sides of America" was pretty ironic, since from here it indicates exactly the same thing about France.

Seems like a nice country...that harbors kiddy rapists.

I am suddenly very uncomfortable with the way this thread is going.

I mean surely there is somebody in France glad to see that rapist dude arrested.

Besson and both Le Pen. Fortunately, some worthwhile voices were heard too.

[Martinus]

I really hate to say it but this is a serious self-induced implosion of moral authority by a considerable part of the European and American artistic community. There are individual voices of reason, but most are just fucking nuts.

They have always been nuts you just did not see it before.

The problem is they were MY nuts. How would you feel if your nuts suddenly imploded on you like that. 

[Zoupa]

tsk tsk, that's not right. Don't you know every french household has a designated room if ever the creep drops by?

We've all been harboring him for 30 years after all.

[garbon]

tsk tsk, that's not right. Don't you know every french household has a designated room if ever the creep drops by?

We've all been harboring him for 30 years after all.

I don't think Berkut meant that every french person supports Polanski when he said France. It would be entirely reasonable to assume he meant the French government which doesn't sound unsympathetic to Polanski when one sees things like this:

"I'm offering my support to Polanski as a French citizen and as the minister for culture. Justice has been denied to him many times in his life, and beauty is something that he has brought though his films," he said, calling Polanski a "wonderful man" and "one of the greatest directors of all time." "If the world of culture does not offer its support to Polanski, then that would mean there is no more culture in this country."

[CountDeMoney]

Are we sure that he fled the prospect of only 48 days, or is that figure a result of misunderstanding the facts somewhere?

Well, I can't say I have personally seen the court documents, so I guess it all depends on whether or not you believe in the quality of CNN's researchers. I will say that it sounds a ridiculously low sentence for the nature of the crime, but I'm not au-fait with the standards of justice applied to celebrities in California in the 1970s.

I've read most of this thread, but in case it's never been posted:

The victim's grand jury testimony transcript:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0610081polanski1.html

The plea agreement transcript:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0928091polanskiplea1.html

The probation report, detailing the forensics of the rape victim:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/1203081roman1.html

There ya go.

[CountDeMoney]

tsk tsk, that's not right. Don't you know every french household has a designated room if ever the creep drops by?

We've all been harboring him for 30 years after all.

Sorry Zoup, but this isn't your average, run-of-the-mill French Moment of Frenchyness(tm).  The French are being real douchebags about this, so save your defensive knee-jerkism for something a little more defensible, like your Hezbollah buddies.

[merithyn]

I think this thread shows that Languish posters just do not have tools to deal with the rarest and most bizarre behavior of all in online debates: admitting that one is wrong.

Most people, like grumbler, just refuse to acknowledge it, and repeat their last disagreement over and over in a vain hope of generating a familiar response.

I, for one, appreciated your admission.

Beyond that, it helped to showcase exactly where the disconnect between Europe and the USA came from. 'mericans don't know what happened completely (mostly) but think what we do know is terribly wrong; Europe doesn't know and doesn't care to find out. What matters is that 'mericans are just plain wrong in their eyes.

Glad to see that some Euros are finding out - and getting upset about it.