Movie: Hardkor 44 - Warsaw uprising meets "300"

[Malthus]

How do you define a pole if not by nationality? Defining citizens based on ethnicity is soo 20th century..

That's the century those event took place in.

[Bluebook]

They self identified as such dude.

Is this in any way relevant in your opinion?

[Bluebook]

How do you define a pole if not by nationality? Defining citizens based on ethnicity is soo 20th century..

That's the century those event took place in.

Really? WW2 took place in the 20th century?

This conversation takes place now. Are you really comfortable with advocating the idea that nationality should be based on ethnicity? And that "illoyal" citizens of a certain ethnicity should not be considered nationals of their country, but instead nationals of their "preferred" choice?

[Caliga]

[Malthus]

How do you define a pole if not by nationality? Defining citizens based on ethnicity is soo 20th century..

That's the century those event took place in.

Really? WW2 took place in the 20th century?

This conversation takes place now. Are you really comfortable with advocating the idea that nationality should be based on ethnicity? And that "illoyal" citizens of a certain ethnicity should not be considered nationals of their country, but instead nationals of their "preferred" choice?

My opinion on the desireability of basing citizenship on ethnicity is quite irrelevant.

[Valmy]

Is this in any way relevant in your opinion?

My opinion is backed up by entire armies fighting for the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.  My opinion is backed up by a massive domestically based resistance movement that had a significant impact on the war.  My opinion is backed up by the fact these things were not present in most of the other occupied territories.

It is also relevent because the Flemish, French. Norwegians and the other people who joined up as foreigners plainly considered themselves Flemish, French and Norwegians and not Germans.  The "Poles" who joined up did not join the special Polish division of the SS, they joined the German Army eager to identify themselves as Germans.  That is a significant difference.

So I am eager to hear why I should ignore the Polish resistance movement, the Polish western allies and so forth and consider the Poles one of the worst collaborators...

Oh right because they had lots of people who considered themselves not Polish but Germans inside their borders.

[Valmy]

Really? WW2 took place in the 20th century?

This conversation takes place now. Are you really comfortable with advocating the idea that nationality should be based on ethnicity? And that "illoyal" citizens of a certain ethnicity should not be considered nationals of their country, but instead nationals of their "preferred" choice?

I am perfectly comfortable pointing out that nations founded in the 20th century explicitly in the name of ethnicity were, in fact, based on ethnicity.  I am perfectly comfortable pointing out that Hungarians in Czechoslovakia were more loyal to Hungary than to the country they lived in because that was an entirely predictable result of trying to divide Eastern Europe up according to ethnic lines.

[Caliga]

My opinion is backed up by the fact these things were not present in most of the other occupied territories.

You forgot: Yugoslavia.

Also Greece.

[Ape]

82 000 served in the SS, all those who registred as volkdeutche were subject to conscription into the german army.

under not in   the Selbstschutz units was disbanded in April -40 and most members was likely drafted into the Wehrmacht

As for how many Polish nationals that served in the Wehrmacht is harder to determine without examaning the German records from -39 and onwards. But you can do calculations.
3 million registered Volkdeutsche
About 10% of the total population is available for immidiate conscription based on age (19-35), gender and suitability (based on the Swedish defense forces from the 1980ies with a population of just over 8 million had a mobilized armed forces of about 800.000 men)

So without actully pulling numbers out of my ass the number of Polish nationals serving in the Wehrmacht during the war would number at lest 300.000, but it is not substantiated, nor can it be on the Internet and without a copy of the German recruitment papers available.

[Valmy]

You forgot: Yugoslavia.

Also Greece.

Um...I said most.

However, neither Greece nor Yugoslavia had anything beyond a home grown resistance movement that I am aware of.

[Caliga]

However, neither Greece nor Yugoslavia had anything beyond a home grown resistance movement that I am aware of.

Well true, though both were supplied and supported in other ways by the Allies.  From a strategic standpoint I would say Tito's partisans were the most successful in WWII, since they liberated most of the country before the Allies arrived.  Of course, they only did so (for the most part) after the Germans were seriously getting their shit pushed in elsewhere and began withdrawing the bulk of their garrison forces.

[Ape]

It is also relevent because the Flemish, French. Norwegians and the other people who joined up as foreigners plainly considered themselves Flemish, French and Norwegians and not Germans.  The "Poles" who joined up did not join the special Polish division of the SS, they joined the German Army eager to identify themselves as Germans.  That is a significant difference.

So I am eager to hear why I should ignore the Polish resistance movement, the Polish western allies and so forth and consider the Poles one of the worst collaborators...

Oh right because they had lots of people who considered themselves not Polish but Germans inside their borders.

Umm Valmy you are aware of that an amount of Alsacians were conscripted in the German army that had French as their mothertounge and considered themselves French are you? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgotten_Soldier Is an autobiography of one such veteran.

So it was not necessery to consider yourself German to be conscripted, only that the German conscription agency had to consider you as such.

[Caliga]

That was a great book. 

[Ape]

That was a great book. 

It is indeed I almost hope Veerhoven will get to do a film on the book

[Valmy]

Umm Valmy you are aware of that an amount of Alsacians were conscripted in the German army that had French as their mothertounge and considered themselves French are you? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgotten_Soldier Is an autobiography of one such veteran.

So it was not necessery to consider yourself German to be conscripted, only that the German conscription agency had to consider you as such.

Apples to Oranges.  The parts of Poland annexed to Germany were under specific instructions by Hitler to remove all Poles to the General Government.  No such order was ever made to Alsace-Lorraine.