Grade Obama

[Caliga]

I keep saying he's gonna be a black version of Carter.

[Savonarola]

I don't think that inability to work with opposition should be held against him.  I don't think Republicans would be willing to work even with Jesus, if he were a Democratic president.

I think it's a sign of his ineptness; even with the partisan rancor at the beginning of their terms Bill Clinton and Bush 43 were able to build bi-partisan support on NAFTA and NCLB respectively.

[DGuller]

I don't think that inability to work with opposition should be held against him.  I don't think Republicans would be willing to work even with Jesus, if he were a Democratic president.

The Repubs have ideas that they try to bring forth, try to work with Dems where they can or want to. On the various bills passed the Repubs proposed new ideas and amendments. Also though, the Dems are drunk on power and are doing what they can to push their weight around. Reoubs may very much dislike some of the ideas being slammed through by the Dems, so at some points they may try to block things. Frankly, I can't always blame the Repubs if they do try to slow the process. I think many of us are a bit annoyed and concerned over some of the Congressional processes lately.

Sure, if you count on insisting on the traditional and discredited Republican dogma, then I guess they are trying to work with the Democrats.  I for one don't count it, because their efforts are not going to be acceptable to anyone who's not a hardcore Republican.  Willingness to compromise implies the actual willingness to reach actual compromise.

[Caliga]

I think it's a sign of his ineptness; even with the partisan rancor at the beginning of their terms Bill Clinton and Bush 43 were able to build bi-partisan support on NAFTA and NCLB respectively.

He is much too busy with important things like appearing at photo ops, having his ass kissed by Katie Couric, and staging Beer Summits.  Get your priorities straight, mister 

[KRonn]

I don't think that inability to work with opposition should be held against him.  I don't think Republicans would be willing to work even with Jesus, if he were a Democratic president.

The Repubs have ideas that they try to bring forth, try to work with Dems where they can or want to. On the various bills passed the Repubs proposed new ideas and amendments. Also though, the Dems are drunk on power and are doing what they can to push their weight around. Reoubs may very much dislike some of the ideas being slammed through by the Dems, so at some points they may try to block things. Frankly, I can't always blame the Repubs if they do try to slow the process. I think many of us are a bit annoyed and concerned over some of the Congressional processes lately.

Sure, if you count on insisting on the traditional and discredited Republican dogma, then I guess they are trying to work with the Democrats.  I for one don't count it, because their efforts are not going to be acceptable to anyone who's not a hardcore Republican.  Willingness to compromise implies the actual willingness to reach actual compromise.

Sounds like the Democratic party talking points. Sheesh... I've become pretty wary of both of these parties by now, haven't you? Repubs have come up with ideas also, and I'm not going to try and praise the Repubs either. But the Dems have kept trying to get points saying that it's either doing things the Dem way or nothing at all, like no else has proposed ideas.

Getting tired of the rancor and deception by both parties doing business as usual. But I'm beginning to become a lot more wary and concerned at the Dems massive spending and programs, demanding they get rushed through. We had Arlen Spector saying at  town hall meeting that they couldn't take the time to read and absorb the ideas in a health care bill, the stuff had to be passed right away. John Conyers scoffed at the notion of reading a bill, saying he'd need a week and a couple lawyers to do so. Nice huh? These guys are trying to pass massive, sweeping legislation!! Even the Dems are now fighting among themselves over health care, cap and trade, and becoming quite nervous about the new spending.

[DGuller]

Yes, I know, all the cool kids wish pox on both houses, fairly and equally.  They do not allow themselves to excercize judgment in any way, that just biases them and makes them less moderate.  :

[alfred russel]

I don't think that inability to work with opposition should be held against him.  I don't think Republicans would be willing to work even with Jesus, if he were a Democratic president.

I doubt the "Give all your worldly possessions to the poor and devote yourself to following me" message would be well received by the RNC.

[Neil]

Yes, I know, all the cool kids wish pox on both houses, fairly and equally.  They do not allow themselves to excercize judgment in any way, that just biases them and makes them less moderate.  :

Incorrect.  All the cool kids are Republicans who haven't sold out to the Jesusoid lobby.  Thus, in a strange way, Nixon is the coolest one of all.

[Faeelin]

The Repubs have ideas that they try to bring forth, try to work with Dems where they can or want to. On the various bills passed the Repubs proposed new ideas and amendments. Also though, the Dems are drunk on power and are doing what they can to push their weight around. Reoubs may very much dislike some of the ideas being slammed through by the Dems, so at some points they may try to block things. Frankly, I can't always blame the Repubs if they do try to slow the process. I think many of us are a bit annoyed and concerned over some of the Congressional processes lately.

Yea you said this before, but then you based your concerns off of Bachmann's talking points.

[KRonn]

Yes, I know, all the cool kids wish pox on both houses, fairly and equally.  They do not allow themselves to excercize judgment in any way, that just biases them and makes them less moderate.  :

Yeah, right. I'm trying to be so cool. While you're, I guess, joined at the hip of the Dems? And that's so much better?

[KRonn]

The Repubs have ideas that they try to bring forth, try to work with Dems where they can or want to. On the various bills passed the Repubs proposed new ideas and amendments. Also though, the Dems are drunk on power and are doing what they can to push their weight around. Reoubs may very much dislike some of the ideas being slammed through by the Dems, so at some points they may try to block things. Frankly, I can't always blame the Repubs if they do try to slow the process. I think many of us are a bit annoyed and concerned over some of the Congressional processes lately.

Yea you said this before, but then you based your concerns off of Bachmann's talking points.

Wow... so I'm using talking points here? To say that the Dems are drunk with power? All I need do is look at all the massive stuff they're trying to rush through Congress! So much so that the more centrist Dems are calling a time out, seeing the reactions of their constituents. Those aren't talking points, but are the realities of what I'm seeing.

[DGuller]

Yeah, right. I'm trying to be so cool. While you're, I guess, joined at the hip of the Dems? And that's so much better?

No, Berkut.  I'm merely someone who has a particular set of values and views that are not necesserily cool or moderate, and that set happens to coincide much more strongly with what Dems are trying to accomplish.

[Viking]

Truman gets an F for not finishing the Japs off.

Well, once the Russians overran Manchuria, the A bombs worked and the Japanese threw the towel, it would have been a bit troublesome to refuse their surrender and invade, and specially so for an ex-vicepresident with barely three or four months of experience in the White House, don't you think?

Japs: We surrender unconditionally!!!!!! don't hurt us plz!!!!
Truman: I fear the wrath of Jaron, U must all die!!!!!

[Sheilbh]

The Repubs have ideas that they try to bring forth, try to work with Dems where they can or want to. On the various bills passed the Repubs proposed new ideas and amendments. Also though, the Dems are drunk on power and are doing what they can to push their weight around. Reoubs may very much dislike some of the ideas being slammed through by the Dems, so at some points they may try to block things. Frankly, I can't always blame the Repubs if they do try to slow the process. I think many of us are a bit annoyed and concerned over some of the Congressional processes lately.

As I say, I've not followed the health care debate.  I did, however, follow the stimulus one pretty closely.  There was an idea that every centre-right economist agreed would work as stimulus and would be basically conservative/centre-right.  They wanted a payroll tax holiday for some length of time, I can't remember what, followed by the tax being at half the rate.  This was the closest to a right-wing version of stimulus.  I would respect the Republicans ideas more if that was the sort of thing they proposed.  It wasn't.  Their ideas for a stimulus package was considered incredibly weak by even centre-right economists and as far as I can tell was proposed just so they could say 'we had ideas and the Democrats didn't want them'.  Their ideas were, for the situation, ridiculous and that's all the sadder when there was an ideologically coherent and conservative alternative. 

Here's the thing with what you say about Republicans vs Democrats.  Democrats have conservative districts and states.  Ben Nelson can't vote like Schumer or he'd lose his seat.  So they need to have an internal debate.  The Republicans are currently a bit of a rump party and their seats seem, overwhelmingly, in the Republican base.  So while moderate Democrats have an incentive to work with Republicans and safer Democrats have an incentive to support them (better have 20 moderates and a majority than a totally united party) I don't know that at the minute the Republicans have an incentive to negotiate in good faith.  Which is, perhaps, why their stimulus alternative was so half-arsed.  Of course I blame it all on the gerrymandering of house seats which I think is a horrible thing that is harmful to the political process.

I'd broadly agree with DGuller.  I don't think supporting a political party means you can't judge them, I've hardly been stinting in my criticism of the Labour party over the past 2 years.  In the American context I think it probably matters more that you have an ideology rather than a party, but I think it's better than the 'pox on both your houses' style cynicism which I think is corrosive and anti-politics.  It reminds me of a critique of realist foreign policy wags, which basically said realists and idealists (whether liberal, neo-con or whatever else) don't really know the impact their policies will have, no one does.  The difference is that if it's bad the realists can sit back, with a French cigarette and say 'at least I didn't get my hopes up'.  I think it can also be very juvenile (though you're not of course ).

[KRonn]

Yeah, right. I'm trying to be so cool. While you're, I guess, joined at the hip of the Dems? And that's so much better?

No, Berkut.  I'm merely someone who has a particular set of values and views that are not necesserily cool or moderate, and that set happens to coincide much more strongly with what Dems are trying to accomplish.

I don't agree with the big government ideas of the more left leaning Dems, so I guess we will disagree on the overall approach of the Dems. Given that, I will support the more centrist Dems/Repubs, who want to address the issues without the huge govt increase that the more left and big government types have been pushing. I want things resolved, as you do of course, but I don't necessarily agree with the large increases in government to get there. That's pretty much my over all attitude. 

You may not want the large increase of govt either, don't know but I don't think you do. I can understand that you want issues resolved, and I also understand your frustration when you feel the Repubs are just being obstructionist. That annoys me as well - I want solutions,not obstructionism. Then, given the way our legislators have been playing for too long now, I feel we need (have needed) to be much more aware and more critical of what those solutions are.