Greedy Billionaires Not Named Elon Megathread

[Syt]

This widespread approval of vigilante murder is really disturbing me.  I'm not saying that health insurance industry is a nice one, or that UHC is the comparatively nice player in that nice industry, but reality is always a lot more complex. 

Yes, one side of that business is denial of claims, but another side of that business is providers trying to get as much money out of insurance company as they can.  In my family's experience, more than once we went "how did insurance company agree to pay for this, and pay so much".  If insurance companies approved every claim, then the astronomical cost of health insurance would become even more astronomical.  Sure, obviously you want to deny the bogus claims and approve the legitimate claims, but that's like saying that police needs to catch the bad guys and keep the good guys free.  Easy to state as a principle, much harder to act on when it's your job.

The reality is, the system is utterly broken, and all the players in that systems are forced to play this macabre game.  As a provider, you have to shoot for the moon, and as the insurance company, you have to push back.  The fault lies with those who fight to maintain this clusterfuck.  The only thing I can say for sure is, if you read an article that says that the company deployed an AI model with a 90% error rate, you should assume that whoever published that article has no interest in reporting anything resembling the truth.

I generally agree with what you're saying, assuming that providers and insurances are profit driven enterprises.

However, who are the actors who keep it alive in your statement? And what can the average (under-)insured schmoe do to improve their situation or affect changes of the system itself?

[Josquius]

I generally agree with what you're saying, assuming that providers and insurances are profit driven enterprises.

However, who are the actors who keep it alive in your statement? And what can the average (under-)insured schmoe do to improve their situation or affect changes of the system itself?

Not voting for Trump would be a start.

[DGuller]

The fault lies with those who fight to maintain this clusterfuck.

So insurance companies and their lobbyists?

That part gets more nuanced, but I'd say that lobbying is part of the system.  If you're a CEO of an insurance company, you're almost legally obligated to defend the interests of your company.  Ultimately it's on politicians to define the system.

[DGuller]

I generally agree with what you're saying, assuming that providers and insurances are profit driven enterprises.

However, who are the actors who keep it alive in your statement? And what can the average (under-)insured schmoe do to improve their situation or affect changes of the system itself?

Not voting for Trump would be a start.

That's basically it.  Ultimately it's down to voters who don't keep politicians accountable (to say the least).  Ideas are out there, like the public option or Medicare for all, but it's the voters who make them unpalatable to act on.  I'm sure Obama would've gone further than Obamacare if he felt the political mandate for it was there, but he barely pushed through what he did, because people where going on and on about death panels.

[Valmy]

And a lot of lack of sympathy for the victim, which, given how his insurance handles business (and generally the insurance system in the US which causes people to die, bankrupt etc.) is not really surprising - at least from my admittedly outside perspective.

Their whole business model is figuring out how to fuck you over in your moment of pain. And it is done in the most unfair way possible. You get the treatment and then after the fact they decide how much they are going to cover. In most businesses people tell you the price and then you decide. But in health care here in the US it is gamble. Do you feel lucky?

My son fell off his scooter and fractured his wrist. Getting him care for this pretty routine childhood injury cost me about $2,000 with insurance. So I guess if you are poor just rub some dirt on it and tell junior to toughen up? Bullshit.

And this CEO in particular had introduced an AI system of denying claims and was under investigation for fraud so...as Clarence Darrow, not Mark Twain, once said "I've never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure."

Not that it really will change much institutionally, just one cog in the corporate death panel machine being murdered, but I am not going to cry about it too much. Especially in a country where school shootings are a regular occurrence.

[Valmy]

That's basically it.  Ultimately it's down to voters who don't keep politicians accountable (to say the least).  Ideas are out there, like the public option or Medicare for all, but it's the voters who make them unpalatable to act on.  I'm sure Obama would've gone further than Obamacare if he felt the political mandate for it was there, but he barely pushed through what he did, because people where going on and on about death panels.

Yeah we could do away with this whole corrupt system if we wanted to. Now we have corporate death panels who are financially incentivized to deny you life saving care.

And yet the killer was some kind of right wing guy and many conservatives are cheering on his actions. I don't get it. This is what you want right? Private health care?

And we will never have like a cheap shitty version of health care for the poors, like the dollar tree of health care. The liability risk is too high. So the idea that a free market version that functions can exist seems like a fantasy story to me.

[Josquius]

One thing that is quite telling with this shooting is how much attention it is getting vs the hundreds of other murders per day. Really shines a light on the value of different lives.

[HVC]

Hundreds of Americans are murdered a week, so you need a hook to catch peoples attention. Sometimes it's pretty young blondes, sometimes it's scummy CEOs.

[mongers]

And a lot of lack of sympathy for the victim, which, given how his insurance handles business (and generally the insurance system in the US which causes people to die, bankrupt etc.) is not really surprising - at least from my admittedly outside perspective.

... snip ....

My son fell off his scooter and fractured his wrist. Getting him care for this pretty routine childhood injury cost me about $2,000 with insurance. So I guess if you are poor just rub some dirt on it and tell junior to toughen up? Bullshit.

... snip...

That's crazy, as you say it's just a routine childhood injury, easy to treat and something parents less well of than you shouldn't have to worry about.

[Syt]

Agreed. I know several families who would have gone broke if stuff like that wasn't covered. Not saying there's no issues with our healthcare over here, but given the choice I know which one I'd pick.

[mongers]

Agreed. I know several families who would have gone broke if stuff like that wasn't covered. Not saying there's no issues with our healthcare over here, but given the choice I know which one I'd pick.

Yes, parents with kids, people with elderly relatives or caring for those with complex needs, certainly don't need that kind of additional BS in their situations.

edit:
And as Raz has attested further up in the thread, it can have devastating effects on the whole family.

[crazy canuck]

And we will never have like a cheap shitty version of health care for the poors, like the dollar tree of health care. The liability risk is too high. So the idea that a free market version that functions can exist seems like a fantasy story to me.

I heard a person who has studied Obamacare interviewed recently, amongst the interesting points she made was that Obamacare was supposed to create an affordable insurance option for the people who don't quality for the existing medical programs for the poor and how don't get the gold plated health care insurance through their employers.

In her view the intention was good but the implementation was terrible.  It apparently did not include the kinds of guardrails that would prevent insurance company shenanigans. It better than having nothing (especially for folks with pre-existing conditions) who would be otherwise uninsurable.  But it is not the best option.

Single payer health systems, for all their problems, at least have the benefit of not bankrupting the people who are being treated.

[crazy canuck]

Agreed. I know several families who would have gone broke if stuff like that wasn't covered. Not saying there's no issues with our healthcare over here, but given the choice I know which one I'd pick.

Yes, parents with kids, people with elderly relatives or caring for those with complex needs, certainly don't need that kind of additional BS in their situations.

edit:
And as Raz has attested further up in the thread, it can have devastating effects on the whole family.

Valmy's story made me think of when I was a kid.  I think I broke or fractured some bone in my body every year for several years in a row.  My parent's would have had to sell me for medical experiments if we were Americans. 

Which makes me wonder, is there some kind of special health coverage for student athletes and their sports related injuries?

[Valmy]

One thing that is quite telling with this shooting is how much attention it is getting vs the hundreds of other murders per day. Really shines a light on the value of different lives.

It was infuriating when this crook got so much attention by the mayor of New York and the NYPD. And then some McDonald's employee found him anyway despite all the public money being mobilized.

How about expending this kind of effort on innocent people getting murdered? Not some asshole under investigation for fraud?

[Valmy]

Agreed. I know several families who would have gone broke if stuff like that wasn't covered. Not saying there's no issues with our healthcare over here, but given the choice I know which one I'd pick.

Yes, parents with kids, people with elderly relatives or caring for those with complex needs, certainly don't need that kind of additional BS in their situations.

edit:
And as Raz has attested further up in the thread, it can have devastating effects on the whole family.

Valmy's story made me think of when I was a kid.  I think I broke or fractured some bone in my body every year for several years in a row.  My parent's would have had to sell me for medical experiments if we were Americans. 

Which makes me wonder, is there some kind of special health coverage for student athletes and their sports related injuries?

Well there is a certain out of pocket amount I have to pay every year before the insurance starts covering most of the costs so I think if Henry just kept breaking bones eventually it wouldn't cost as much.

I presume the school has insurance which covers student athlete related injuries, otherwise they would be in court constantly from being sued.