Quo Vadis, Democrats?

[garbon]

I think it's hard for professional class to identify with the working class.  The more the left became identified with the professional class, the more the working class became alienated, and the more the left became incapable of perceiving that the working class is alienated from them.

Maybe we need to reinforce maintaining larger familial networks? Like there is a wide range of different experiences within my extended family.

[crazy canuck]

I think it's hard for professional class to identify with the working class.  The more the left became identified with the professional class, the more the working class became alienated, and the more the left became incapable of perceiving that the working class is alienated from them.

That is a very good summary of what has occurred.

[DGuller]

I think it's hard for professional class to identify with the working class.  The more the left became identified with the professional class, the more the working class became alienated, and the more the left became incapable of perceiving that the working class is alienated from them.

Maybe we need to reinforce maintaining larger familial networks? Like there is a wide range of different experiences within my extended family.

My strong gut feeling is that the alienation is a matter of cultural exclusion much more so than economics.  That's one reason why I think that people touting Biden's accomplishments or Harris's proposals are not getting at the core of it.  People may say that they care about economics, but whether they realize it or not, most people really value feeling included above most everything else.

[Valmy]

I think it's hard for professional class to identify with the working class.  The more the left became identified with the professional class, the more the working class became alienated, and the more the left became incapable of perceiving that the working class is alienated from them.

Well maybe. That is all very vague and theoretical though. I am not sure what to do with that.

And since we have two big tent parties, if the Democrats ever become solely a leftwing party they are going to lose anyway. Presuming there currently exists something called the center.

[Valmy]

I think it's hard for professional class to identify with the working class.  The more the left became identified with the professional class, the more the working class became alienated, and the more the left became incapable of perceiving that the working class is alienated from them.

Maybe we need to reinforce maintaining larger familial networks? Like there is a wide range of different experiences within my extended family.

My strong gut feeling is that the alienation is a matter of cultural exclusion much more so than economics.  That's one reason why I think that people touting Biden's accomplishments or Harris's proposals are not getting at the core of it.  People may say that they care about economics, but whether they realize it or not, most people really value feeling included above most everything else.

I don't know man. This kind of "hope! joy! togetherness!" stuff seems to be losing out to "THE BAD PEOPLE ARE COMING FOR YOU!" message the Republicans are using. I mean we are in a country where a scary amount of people are cheering on the murder of a health care CEO.

But again, what do I know? I guess it worked for Obama. But last I checked Harris tried to do this. But maybe she just didn't go far enough. I thought she should have gone on Joe Rogan for example.

[Grey Fox]

I think it still works, Valmy. The right has recognize early that the traditional media & marketing strategies don't work anymore.

Going on Rogan for Trump was a masterstroke. His endorsement delivered for Trump millions of vote.

[Admiral Yi]

Well I thought I knew why, that they abandoned the working class to cozy up to big business.

How did they abandon the working class?

[Barrister]

I think it's hard for professional class to identify with the working class.  The more the left became identified with the professional class, the more the working class became alienated, and the more the left became incapable of perceiving that the working class is alienated from them.

Maybe we need to reinforce maintaining larger familial networks? Like there is a wide range of different experiences within my extended family.

My strong gut feeling is that the alienation is a matter of cultural exclusion much more so than economics.  That's one reason why I think that people touting Biden's accomplishments or Harris's proposals are not getting at the core of it.  People may say that they care about economics, but whether they realize it or not, most people really value feeling included above most everything else.

That's right up there with Musa al gharbi's "cultural capitalists" - it describes people who have cultural capital, if not monetary capital.  They're people who know the right words, go to the right schools, have the right experiences, to be able to succeed.

YOu can imagine a blue collar family.  Maybe they're doing well financially, or maybe they're not - it kindof doesn't matter.  But while they personally like the Honduran family next door they're against so many immigrants coming in, they don't understand how men can become women, and don't like how their kid got suspended for just saying some rap lyrics the other kids were using.  They just don't have the cultural capital, and that can make all the difference.

[Iormlund]

I think it still works, Valmy. The right has recognize early that the traditional media & marketing strategies don't work anymore.

Going on Rogan for Trump was a masterstroke. His endorsement delivered for Trump millions of vote.

The ability to manipulate social networks is now essential.

I'm quite frankly amazed at how easily people around me start parroting the shit they are fed. And I'm not talking about blue-collar workers. The folks I discuss politics with - family, friends and colleagues - are college educated.

[Valmy]

Well I thought I knew why, that they abandoned the working class to cozy up to big business.

How did they abandon the working class?

Ok now I am not a working class person so I don't pretend to claim to know the answer.

But that has been the claim for a long time. My understanding of it was that it was a result of the Democrats adopting right wing economic policies in the 1990s and 2000s. Free trade and all that. Seeking the support of corporations and big business instead of relying on Union support. Though the idea today that one can rely on Union support or small donors when Corporations, or even certain individuals, can donate hundreds of millions is perhaps cute.

But Biden going out there and being more protectionist and supporting Unions more didn't seem to make him popular among those working class groups. Though I did notice that the Republicans did not really criticize him for that either, at least not publicly. They very much focused on inflation, culture war stuff, border panic, and so forth not that he was anti-business.

So I don't know, maybe Biden had the right idea but it is too little too late to have a real impact but the Democrats need to keep going in that direction. Or maybe this whole idea that it is economic policies at all is nonsense and the Democrats need to do things differently in some other way.

Again, what the fuck do I know? There is about a zero percent chance I vote for the Republicans in the near future so I am clearly not the demographic giving them issues.

[Valmy]

I think it still works, Valmy. The right has recognize early that the traditional media & marketing strategies don't work anymore.

Going on Rogan for Trump was a masterstroke. His endorsement delivered for Trump millions of vote.

The ability to manipulate social networks is now essential.

I'm quite frankly amazed at how easily people around me start parroting the shit they are fed. And I'm not talking about blue-collar workers. The folks I discuss politics with - family, friends and colleagues - are college educated.

Maybe the Democrats need to be like the Russian government and just employ a propaganda troll army somewhere. Probably be a better use of all the hundreds of millions they raise currently.