Young People and Politics

[frunk]

It's more of a right of passage for third rate right wing comics to claim they've been cancelled or otherwise silenced in order to book more dates, get press and appear "edgy".

I don't think free speech is really at risk in this case when the primary way to get more exposure is by claiming oppression.  It certainly shows a cultural problem but not one rooted in an inability to speak.

[Valmy]

The relevant question is how many comedians feel that there are deadly consequences for stepping over the line? 

What is the line? I mean look at all the stuff South Park does, neither Parker nor Stone have been brutally gunned down yet.

Look man I have always been on your side with the hunting down average Joes and Janes for some stupid thing they said online and trying to get them fired and stuff...but I just don't see how the situation is crushing comedy.

[Sophie Scholl]

Some of you are just embarrassing with your takes. Thank you to those who stand up for people like me. It means a lot to see cis and cishet folks speak up against bigotry, hate, and mindless propaganda aimed at the trans community. 

[Syt]

I think humor is highly subjective, but generally I feel uncomfortable when comedians "punch down" at marginalized groups these days which seems to be what conservative humor is more often aimed at than left leaning humor.

[Sophie Scholl]

When your party and group beliefs make bullying, fear, hate, and hurting others staples of your core existence, legitimate comedy has already left you far, far behind.

[The Minsky Moment]

The relevant question is how many comedians feel that there are deadly consequences for stepping over the line? 

The number of people in the West killed by Russian nuclear weapons is zero,.

Respectfully, I don't think that analogy holds.

There a lot of comedians doing a lot of shows across the country every day.  I find it hard to believe that in the last 5-10 years not a single one has crossed the line because of Comic-MAD. On the contrary, I am reasonably confident that many have crossed the line without severe or permanent consequence.

The closest example I can think of is Chappelle who has probably fallen off some Christmas Card lists, but last I checked his Netflix shows were still streaming.  That's an odd sort of cancellation.

[Josquius]

Although we should handle behavioural science with a little bit of care as my understanding is that it has a huge replicability problem which is challenging for a science.

I'm 90% sure it's marketeers marketing themselves as scientists

This is a problem in basically all science these days.  People are constantly playing the publication game and pushing for media attention. You get that from shocking new studies that definitely prove that all men are sexist (study performed on just 10 guys randomly grabbed off the street on Saturday night).
Behavioural science as a separate branch of science is a nonsense, but its aspects are perfectly valid psychology and sociology in action. A lot of this stuff is very practically applicable and broadly works as you'd expect.

At the risk of triggering Jos especially (), this is perhaps also because the establishment has changed.

When Beyond The Fringe were doing irreverent satire, it was around the time that people were talking about "the establishment" as a thing. From my understanding I think it was an explanation of how, in the UK at the time, power was operated in a social as well as a political context - which became glaringly more obvious as British society became more democratic.

But the "establishment" then was bluff old Colonel Blimps, aristocratic shooting parties, out of touch pompous judges, Church of England bishops etc. That is not, I'd suggest, where power is exercised socially in Britain today - though I think there are probably some constants (civil service, barristers etc). For some groups they just no longer really hold power or influence, for others their own social make-up has changed dramatically.

I think the establishment is different now. And I think that's a little challenging for people who are broadly on the progressive side because I think their founding myth is fighting that mid-century establishment in various ways. At the kindest, I think it's a little bit generals fighting the last war.

The establishment has grown, the power of old money has shifted into the background a fair bit whilst a lot of new money has come in. But as a basic concept it is broadly still the same groups with the same attitudes.
Less care for titles and 'class', a lot more attention on money and materialism. Its far more 'vulgar' than it used to be. But the idea that the establishment is left wing is just madness.

[Tamas]

Some of you are just embarrassing with your takes. Thank you to those who stand up for people like me. It means a lot to see cis and cishet folks speak up against bigotry, hate, and mindless propaganda aimed at the trans community. 

What's cishet?

[Syt]

Cis-gender/heterosexual.

[Tamas]

@Valmy, I wasn't so much think of comedians as of the 4chan and all its many derivatives, and the right-wing (and apolitical leading to right wing) memeplex. I can't really think of any equivalents on the left side of things.

@Sheilbh and @Minsky, I think you may be on to something about the sense of belonging, authenticity, and the "real" as well.

I think this is a very good point I didn't think of before but seems to line up with my experiences.

The memesphere IS dominated by the right. I guess maybe a part of this is that progressive values are no longer the counter-culture ones they used to be. Which is a good thing, but it does mean that to present as rebelling against the perceived authority, you kind of need to be a nihilistic edgelord.

[garbon]

Although we should handle behavioural science with a little bit of care as my understanding is that it has a huge replicability problem which is challenging for a science.

I'm 90% sure it's marketeers marketing themselves as scientists

This is a problem in basically all science these days.  People are constantly playing the publication game and pushing for media attention. You get that from shocking new studies that definitely prove that all men are sexist (study performed on just 10 guys randomly grabbed off the street on Saturday night).
Behavioural science as a separate branch of science is a nonsense, but its aspects are perfectly valid psychology and sociology in action. A lot of this stuff is very practically applicable and broadly works as you'd expect.

My understanding was the 'replication crisis' wasn't only about recent work but classical studies as well.

https://www.cos.io/about/news/28-classic-and-contemporary-psychology-findings-replicated-more-60-laboratories-each-across-three-dozen-nations-and-territories

[Tamas]

Cis-gender/heterosexual.

Ok but you can be just "cis" if heterosexual, right? So it's kind of redundant? Unless "cis" means birth-gendered homosexual?

[Syt]

No, you could be cis-male/cis-female and bi-/homo/a-/pansexual. Cis(gender) just means (AFAI understand) identifying with your birth gender.

Happy to be corrected/educated, though. :-)

[Sophie Scholl]

No, you could be cis-male/cis-female and bi-/homo/a-/pansexual. Cis(gender) just means (AFAI understand) identifying with your birth gender.

Happy to be corrected/educated, though. :-)

Correct.

So, Syt (I hope you don't mind me using you as an example!) is a cis het male as he is a person who was assigned "male" as his gender at birth, still identifies with that, and is heterosexual in terms of his preferences in partners (afaik).

Garbon (I hope you don't mind me using you as an example!) would be cis gay as he is a person who was assigned "male" as his gender at birth, still identifies with that, and is homosexual in terms of his preferences in partners (afaik).

I find it can be a little wonky, but sometimes necessary or helpful to explain things. It also makes Elon Musk and others *very* angry.

[Admiral Yi]

Do you hope Syt doesn't mind being used as an example?