Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Razgovory]

I don't support the colonization of the West Bank.

You just turn a blind eye to it and approve everything Israel does.  But you don't support it.  Strange take to have.

Please, no more false statements.

[Razgovory]

Yeah, you are not getting it.  Air Strip One was a fictional future country.  If we establish airstrip one in 50 years now, you can't say that Air Strip One has always existed.  Yet you do that with Palestine.

This makes your argument even worse.
Leaving aside the fiction vs. reality angle (I had to look up that Father Ted bit though....). Airstrip One is a (warning we don't want of a) future nation. That it has no past and is artificially created by an illegitimate regime as a means of stomping down a people's freedom is its entire point.

Palestine is a very real place in the present with a long history. If the desires of the zionists come true it won't have a future. It is what is being actively eliminated.

One could argue they're literally opposite ends of the equation.

As it happens Israel is older than Palestine, It is first mentioned in Egyptian sources in 1209-1203 BC.  Palestine comes from Pelest a people (probably from Europe, maybe Greece), who invaded the region around 1150 BC.  The Egyptians let them settle in the area that is the Gaza strip.  These colonists did fight the Israelites but were eventually crushed by the Persians.  After the Jewish revolts in Judea the Romans genocided and ethnically cleansed the Jews and renamed the province  "Syria Palestine".  Eventually The Arabs then the Turks took over and it was just Syria.  When the British took it over they renamed it Palestine.

Palestine is and has always been the colonial name of the area.

As I've already said this is a shit argument for problems in the current day.
Its basically akin to saying if some group comes along and conquers a chunk of France but calls themselves "Gaul" then they're instantly far more legitimate than any groups calling themselves France.

Yet despite choosing this invalid point, it doesn't even back you up. So purely academically...

The earliest sources for Palestine and Israel come from around the same point in time. However Israel quite solidly refers to a kingdom in the north of the current country. Gaza and its surroundings were Palestine.

I've seen far right folk throwing that "Palestinians are Philistines from Greece!" one out weirdly often. As if it means anything. We're talking about the second millenium BC here.
1500 years before the English showed up in England.
Back when southern Korea was probably still Japonic.
More than long enough ago to be counted as native as can be- besides which these are the ancestors of Palestinians and Israelis both....
Every name is a "colonial" name. History was pretty messy, pre-history even more-so.

The Romans killed a shit-tonne of Jews. But they didn't wipe them out. A lot of them stayed behind and with time many of their descendants became Christian and then the bulk of those Muslim (and various other groups).

Palestine remained Palestine under the Arabs and Turks. Britain didn't rename it. Weird and easily disproven myth that still gets echoed.
But if your argument is that a gap in the use of a name somehow delegitimises all associated with it (again- daft. Why do you think this is a remotely relevant argument for human rights in the 21st century?) ....you might want to think about Israel and how long that went unused.

You are soooo close to getting it.  Palestine wasn't a real place at time the British conquered it.  They made a forgotten realm into a new one.  The people there didn't know they were Palestinian until the British told them they were.  The identity of Palestinian comes from that, not ancient history.  If the British had called their territory "Israel" would that made any difference?


Earliest reference to Israel is the Mernaptah stele 1213 -1203.  The pharaoh brags about destroying them in Caanan. (this is long before the establishment of a Northern kingdom of Israel.)  Earliest reference to Palestinian is the Mortuary Temple of Ramseses the 2nd. They are invaders who later settle in Palestine.  You said Palestine goes first, that Israel is founded in Palestine.  Your statement is false.  I was correcting you.  This isn't far right, it is archeology.  

The Palestinians do not claim decent from Jews.  While it would be logical to claim they do, they do not.  Because they are racists and Jews are the sons of apes and pigs.  For them to be descended from Jews would mean they are also descended from apes and pigs.  Remember the Arabs were developing their own nationalist identity in the early twentieth century.  When they looked for role models they looked toward Germany...

Just out of curiosity, how long does a people have to live in a land before they start to be "native".  How long after they leave it do they lose that status?

I think it genocide and ethnic cleansing is a fair way to describe what happened to the jews in Roman Judea you know, with the whole exile thing.  I can make it simpler for you, if you liike.  In more modern terms:

White People:  Nope you can't live in Israel anymore.  You need to leave
Jews:  Okay, we'll move to Europe
White People:  NO!  You don't understand, we REALLY don't want you here either
Jews: Okay, we'll just go back to Israel
White People:  Nope, turns out we don't want you there either.  You got to go somewhere else.