The EU thread

[Richard Hakluyt]

 

Great, just great...we're doomed.

[Sheilbh]

And for balance on the UK side. We're apparently pushing back very hard on Trump's demand that European NATO allies increase defence spending to 5%, but resisting even giving a timeline for the government goal of increasing defence spending from 2 to 2.5%. But it seems very unlikely that they'll do it in this parliament (without a lot of American pressure). Luckily there's no reason to be urgent in the world

At the same time as we've signed a "100 year" agreement with Ukraine (which is, however, light on defence - which is something I think Western countries are just trying to avoid thinking about).

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Great, just great...we're doomed.

And then they wonder why the eu isn't taken seriously.
It does this to itself

[Barrister]

Not to dunk - but there was a piece recently on Starmer trying to start discussions with the EU on a security and defence pact. Which, in the context of a crisis in the Atlantic Alliance, war in Ukraine and reports like that about the Russian threat, included this fantastically Eurocrat quote from an EU diplomat...

"We share security interests with the UK and the UK shares it with us," the diplomat said. "But at the same time, and there is no beating around the bush, that the future relationship on fisheries is also very important."

That's just wonderful...

[Tamas]

This is how those in the 30s who saw Hitler for what he was must had felt. Infuriating.

[Duque de Bragança]

Great, just great...we're doomed.

The people has spoken.   

[crazy canuck]

Great, just great...we're doomed.

You don't hold out hope the all important fisheries issue will be resolved?

[Sheilbh]

You don't hold out hope the all important fisheries issue will be resolved?

Weirdly yet also inevitably fisheries is the first dispute that's going to court under the post-Brexit deal. Basically UK banned all commercial sandeel fishing in its waters. It's after campaigns of many decades by conservationists that their population is declining which has a big impact on the wider ecosystem, especially marine birds (puffins in particular). The EU is suing that the ban is disproportionate and discriminatory (90% of Europe's commercial sandeel fishing is done by Denmark).

Economically it's tiny - I think about €18 million a year - but in terms of the politics is an immovable object (European fishers) against an unstoppable force (British animal welfare enthusiasts - see also the bat tunnel and many other embraces of "Brexit freedoms" like banning foie gras and far tighter rules on the transportation of live livestock).

[crazy canuck]

Thanks for the explanation - it got me thinking about the problems we are likely to encounter with the Americans in relation to managing the fish stocks on each coast.  There is a long history of cooperation and information sharing, combined with integrated strategies for managing the fishery.  Part of that is a concerted effort on both sides of the border to be particularly mindful of the local orca family groups in the Salish Sea to ensure they have enough to eat.

I hope that is very far down the priority list of Musk to fuck up.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

You should consider that fucked up already.
That long history is now ancient history.

[Sheilbh]

Thanks for the explanation - it got me thinking about the problems we are likely to encounter with the Americans in relation to managing the fish stocks on each coast.  There is a long history of cooperation and information sharing, combined with integrated strategies for managing the fishery.  Part of that is a concerted effort on both sides of the border to be particularly mindful of the local orca family groups in the Salish Sea to ensure they have enough to eat.

I hope that is very far down the priority list of Musk to fuck up.

Yeah. The Common Fisheries Policy like the Common Agriculture Policy is a hugely contested, heavily negotiated part of being in the EU - and leaving it, is complicated because it gave equal access to all EU vessels within EU waters and then the UK (with a lot of waters) left. Quota negotiations are hugely protracted - again like agriculture subsidies in many ways.

There's always been controversy around it in all sorts of ways. My understanding is the UK generally has smaller fleets and fishers are less politically influential than more conservationist-minded groups so broadly quite restrictionist on fishing, other EU members had slightly different emphases (and in some the fishing lobby is very politically influential) who are more supportive of fishing.

But it's something you learn about at law school because the key EU law decision by the House of Lords that basically enshrined the supremacy of European law (including over parliament) was to do with fishing (Add in the Cod Wars, Hans Island, the South China Sea and fishing generally seems like a weirdly important flashpoint everywhere? )

[Crazy_Ivan80]

fishing is important because the sea is a massive provider of food. And much of it is threatened with collapse due to overfishing (and not only by the chinese locust fishers)

[HVC]

https://www.businessinsider.com/german-navy-says-warships-were-sabotaged-warns-of-russian-threat-2025-2

With their puppet sitting on the presidential thrones, Russia is getting more confident.

[Legbiter]

Great, just great...we're doomed.

[Barrister]

Hey guys - there's some low-level discussions on a couple of message boards along the lines on "Well if the USA is going to screw over Canada, maybe we should join the EU!"

It's never going to happen (I'm aware of the EU turning down Morocco flat for "not being in Europe") - but just for fun if it was - white kind of effects would that have I'm not thinking of?

I know in typical EU fashion probably fishing rights would be a huge concern.  I mean we already had the cod war with Spain.  CAP would be a nightmare - both because Europeans wouldn't want cheap Canadian grain flooding in, but Canada would have to wholesale take up EU labelling and distribution rights for EU dairy.

There's the "boring" stuff too, like mobility rights and the Euro.

But give me the really obscure stuff that I'm not even thinking of that would throw Canadians heads for a loop...  EU vehicle regulations would prohibit our pick-up trucks?