The EU thread

[Jacob]

Jupin is less worse than Trudeau. Beyond that...

It always surprises me when non-Canadians have opinions on Trudeau. I can broadly guess what your objections are to him given what I know of your politics, but I'm still curious about any specifics. What are you rating him on, and how is he worse than Jupin?

Partially this because I'm curious which things about Trudeau has travelled beyond Canada and which remain, and partially it'll help me understand a bit more about Jupin (whom I know very little about).

[Sheilbh]

Partially this because I'm curious which things about Trudeau has travelled beyond Canada and which remain, and partially it'll help me understand a bit more about Jupin (whom I know very little about).

As I say I think it's projection in large part. In the case of Macron (unlike, I think, Merkel, Trudeau, Arden etc), deliberately courted it.

I think it was British and American liberals (particularly of the "centrist dad" variety in the UK ) following Brexit, then Trump, then Johnson looking at foreign leaders with a bit of yearning/envy. I think it normally involves divorcing that leader from any relevant domestic political context or from their policies and just idealising them based on their behaviour as "adults in the room" and occasionally reported. Of course there is an irony in people frustrated at idiot voters in their own country being fooled by PR and not substance attaching their political identity to foreign leaders understood in a vacuum.

[Iormlund]

I think with the Euro crisis there is a case that her and her government helped save the Euro ...

Heh. What case would that be?

Draghi saved the Euro. The best you can say about Merkel is that she let it happen (not that there were many alternatives at that point).

As Tamas says, she strikes me as a shrewd politician, but a mediocre stateswoman. Sadly that describes so many of our leaders ...

[Duque de Bragança]

Jupin is less worse than Trudeau. Beyond that...

It always surprises me when non-Canadians have opinions on Trudeau. I can broadly guess what your objections are to him given what I know of your politics, but I'm still curious about any specifics. What are you rating him on, and how is he worse than Jupin?

Partially this because I'm curious which things about Trudeau has travelled beyond Canada and which remain, and partially it'll help me understand a bit more about Jupin (whom I know very little about).

Mostly multiculturalism. Even Jupin does not go that far, at least openly.
There is a Québécois columnist in the Figaro, Zemmour had been making references to Québec every now and then so Trudeau is not an unknown over here, helped by the Francophonie aspect.

https://www.lefigaro.fr/vox/societe/2017/02/22/31003-20170222ARTFIG00264-eric-zemmour-notre-avenir-s-ecrit-au-quebec.php

This goes both ways, I still remember this hilarious rant by a very right-wing Québécois about bloody French leftists Sales GAUCHISTES ! (French only sorry), groupies of Trudeau. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHx9jbxyuXk

[Barrister]

Holding Quebec up as a model of multiculturalism sounds odd to these anglo-Canadian ears.

[Grey Fox]

and yet.

We're better at it than France.
And RoC confuses religion for identity.

[HVC]

Write that twice as large in French

[Sheilbh]

Today was Merkel's 107th and likely last EU Council. She was lauded there, but I find her record mixed.

She really was lauded. I mean good lord man, get a grip:

Jessica Parker
@MarkerJParker
#CharlesMichel has been paying tribute to #AngelaMerkel at #EUCO and it's quite something

In the room he's apparently told her: "You are a monument... EUCO without Angela is like Rome without the Vatican or Paris without the Eiffel Tower."
He's described her "extreme sobriety & simplicity" as a "powerful seduction weapon"

And said she's a "compass and a shining light of our European project."

Whatever happened to just saying "it's been nice working with you and we've had a whip-round to get you this carriage clock"

[Savonarola]

She really was lauded. I mean good lord man, get a grip:

Jessica Parker
@MarkerJParker
#CharlesMichel has been paying tribute to #AngelaMerkel at #EUCO and it's quite something

In the room he's apparently told her: "You are a monument... EUCO without Angela is like Rome without the Vatican or Paris without the Eiffel Tower."

That sounds like a Cole porter song.

He's described her "extreme sobriety & simplicity" as a "powerful seduction weapon"

Er... what? 

[Sheilbh]

Er... what? 

I can't even imagine how uncomfortable that must have been in the room.

It reminds me of the Christopher Hitchens piece about how Thatcher was sexy and seductive - I just feel like straight men shouldn't be allowed opinions on women politicians until they can resist the temptation to talk about their "seductiveness".

[HVC]

I don't know, talking about merkels seductiveness sounds like what a closeted gay man would say to overcompensate . Like Captain Holt from Brooklyn Nine Nine when he's under cover as a straight man

[Barrister]

Er... what? 

I can't even imagine how uncomfortable that must have been in the room.

It reminds me of the Christopher Hitchens piece about how Thatcher was sexy and seductive - I just feel like straight men shouldn't be allowed opinions on women politicians until they can resist the temptation to talk about their "seductiveness".

I was curious and googled what you were talking about.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/margaret-thatcher-iron-lady_b_1199269

It's weird all right, but the backstory is that he was asked to answer the rather silly question "Who Are More Attractive: Left-Wing Women or Right-Wing Women?".  David Brooks took the opposite position, writing as a rightie that left-wing women are more attractive.

[Syt]

Er... what? 

[Sheilbh]

I was curious and googled what you were talking about.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/margaret-thatcher-iron-lady_b_1199269

It's weird all right, but the backstory is that he was asked to answer the rather silly question "Who Are More Attractive: Left-Wing Women or Right-Wing Women?".  David Brooks took the opposite position, writing as a rightie that left-wing women are more attractive.

For that article - but it was (at least) his second article on the sexiness of Thatcher. As he writes there:

I did once, however, reap an enormous mailbag of the "Come off it; you must be kidding; let's get out of here" sort. This was when, in New Statesman, I discoursed a bit on what to me was obvious, viz., the sexual magnetism of Margaret Hilda Roberts, the second Mrs. Denis Thatcher, and now a full-blown baroness.

The year was 1977 or so, and she was still a very provisional Leader of the Opposition. At the New Statesman, which was then the flagship journal of the British left, it was easy to share in the prevalent view, which was that the Tories had made a historic mistake. By picking that "shrill, narrow, suburban housewife," they had surrendered the all-important middle ground of politics and set themselves up for a thorough trouncing as "extremists" and "ideologues." I had other reasons for thinking this opinion to be a mistaken one, but this article is not about my foresight. It's about my political libido.

I think the 77 piece (when Brooks was a teenager) about how she was "surprisingly sexy"

[Barrister]

I was curious and googled what you were talking about.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/margaret-thatcher-iron-lady_b_1199269

It's weird all right, but the backstory is that he was asked to answer the rather silly question "Who Are More Attractive: Left-Wing Women or Right-Wing Women?".  David Brooks took the opposite position, writing as a rightie that left-wing women are more attractive.

For that article - but it was (at least) his second article on the sexiness of Thatcher. As he writes there:

I did once, however, reap an enormous mailbag of the "Come off it; you must be kidding; let's get out of here" sort. This was when, in New Statesman, I discoursed a bit on what to me was obvious, viz., the sexual magnetism of Margaret Hilda Roberts, the second Mrs. Denis Thatcher, and now a full-blown baroness.

The year was 1977 or so, and she was still a very provisional Leader of the Opposition. At the New Statesman, which was then the flagship journal of the British left, it was easy to share in the prevalent view, which was that the Tories had made a historic mistake. By picking that "shrill, narrow, suburban housewife," they had surrendered the all-important middle ground of politics and set themselves up for a thorough trouncing as "extremists" and "ideologues." I had other reasons for thinking this opinion to be a mistaken one, but this article is not about my foresight. It's about my political libido.

I think the 77 piece (when Brooks was a teenager) about how she was "surprisingly sexy"

But it surely can't be as creepy as the bit in this article where he talks about being literally spanked by Thatcher back in '77...