Property prices thread

[The Larch]

Don't get me wrong guys the more people stop using cars the happier I will be, as it will make it more pleasant for me to do so.

It's just a very urban-centric view to not be aware the massive amount of hassle a car saves you. Tyr is starting to realise, though.

Or you could be less of an idiot and stop assuming that we don't know what we're talking about. I've been driving since I was 18, and I do own a car, and am perfectly aware of the advantages it brings. I am also perfectly aware of the costs it entails too, and all the ills it brings. And nobody is talking about making cars dissappear, yet you keep purposedfully strawmanning our position. Read and think more and assume less.

[Tamas]

Read and think more and assume less.

I have no time for any of those things.

[The Brain]

Read. Listen. Educate yourself. Once you've absorbed this come back and we can talk about the issue: *links to 45 min YT video of nutcase rambling*

[Barrister]

Even if it's just for cleanliness' sake it's better to keep a car in a garage rather than on the street. At least over here when buying a 2nd hand car the fact that it has been kept in a garage is normally considered to be a factor that increases its value (or rather than keeping it parked on the street makes its value go down much faster).

I don't mean to get into stereotypes but is part of that also that streets in Spanish towns tend to be narrower and there's possibly a higher risk of cars getting dinked etc?

I don't know anyone who uses a garage. You're far more likely to see people park in the drive or on the street - cleanliness is an issue but you just get/do a car wash every now and then. I've never thought of it as an issue or likely to impact on the value of a vehicle

This does also get to one of my many issues of cars - the vast majority of the time, they're parked. We waste a lot of urban space with places for people to use and store vehicles for at most 2-3 hours a day

OMG Sheilbh I don't know how narrow Spanish streets are but do you know how narrow English ones are? 

And on the insufferable pain of getting in and out of cars in garages (as Tyr brought up) the whole point is that these garags are too smal to have a practical use. I can tell you, the chore of opening and closing dors of garages where a car actually fits pale in comparison to the chore of keeping on-street cars in an even remotely acceptable state.

In civilized parts of the world we have automatic garage door openers that open or close your garage door at the click of a button.

[Barrister]

But it need not be so if the UK took a leaf out of the book of other urban European countries.
It's quite amazing I find the amount of Dutch, Belgians, Swiss, etc... You meet who don't move to the big cities at the first opportunity but keep living in their home town and commuting by train... ..
Because it is possible to do this there.

You know the size of those countries may have something to do with how you can commute from train from just about anywhere...

[Josquius]

You know the size of those countries may have something to do with how you can commute from train from just about anywhere...

Its funny that you hear this one a lot from North Americans about why stuff won't work there. I see it a lot from Americans on having a healthcare system. But I don't see why not. The only difference is rather than on an entire national level you'd have it on provincial or greater metropolitan area basis.

I don't expect the UK to reach a stage where I can live in Durham and commute to London every morning and be comfortable with this horrific lifestyle (some definitely do it...). But to be able to live in a town 10 miles away and have a comfortable time of living much of my social and professional life in the nearby city? Yes, this should definitely be possible.

Don't get me wrong guys the more people stop using cars the happier I will be, as it will make it more pleasant for me to do so.

It's just a very urban-centric view to not be aware the massive amount of hassle a car saves you. Tyr is starting to realise, though.

Yes and no.
When you live in an area with crap public transport then cars are better. Yes. I've known this forever. I don't think anyone would ever dispute this.
However living in an area with decent public transport vs. living in an area with crap public transport and a car...its no contest. The areas with good transport are much better. A lifestyle without the stress of having to drive wins every time.
This goes beyond even the surface level personal effects and has an impact on a deeper level of helping society, sense of place, economy, etc... of the regions with better transport.

I have to say here you do seem to be drawing awfully close to a common fallacy you see amongst the car zealots who oppose any attempts to improve public transport or cycle lanes on the basis this reduces their ability to park right outside the pub. Nobody thinks we can just suddenly ban cars because we're all out of touch liberal metropolitan elites who don't realise people have to live in places like Ashington.
Its precisely for the benefit of people living in these unconnected forgotten towns that we think there should be more investment in public transport and the removal of the absolute need to own a car to live your life for millions of people.
If you're an older well off person and live in those towns then the car-based life works.
But if you're young or poor or disabled or in some other way hindered in getting a car then you're utterly screwed.
I'm absolutely serious when I say a huge problem in my days as a young adult was even getting to job interviews. The busses are infrequent, disconnected, and very expensive. As to having a social life if I had chose to live at home- forget it. Last bus at 7pm.
Really to me this stands out as the key factor in why the UK is such an absolute mess. Sort out the trains (and busses) and you sort out the country.


Recently youtube has been throwing this youtube channel "Not just bikes" at me. About a Canadian guy who moved to Holland and does a lot of great analysis on public transport and urban development and why the 20th century's car focussed ideals fail.
e.g.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul_xzyCDT98&t=345s

[garbon]

Don't get me wrong guys the more people stop using cars the happier I will be, as it will make it more pleasant for me to do so.

It's just a very urban-centric view to not be aware the massive amount of hassle a car saves you. Tyr is starting to realise, though.

Or you could be less of an idiot and stop assuming that we don't know what we're talking about. I've been driving since I was 18, and I do own a car, and am perfectly aware of the advantages it brings. I am also perfectly aware of the costs it entails too, and all the ills it brings. And nobody is talking about making cars dissappear, yet you keep purposedfully strawmanning our position. Read and think more and assume less.

I think Jos and Sheilbh are both on the would be happy to have personal cars gone side.

[Josquius]

Don't get me wrong guys the more people stop using cars the happier I will be, as it will make it more pleasant for me to do so.

It's just a very urban-centric view to not be aware the massive amount of hassle a car saves you. Tyr is starting to realise, though.

Or you could be less of an idiot and stop assuming that we don't know what we're talking about. I've been driving since I was 18, and I do own a car, and am perfectly aware of the advantages it brings. I am also perfectly aware of the costs it entails too, and all the ills it brings. And nobody is talking about making cars dissappear, yet you keep purposedfully strawmanning our position. Read and think more and assume less.

I think Jos and Sheilbh are both on the would be happy to have personal cars gone side.

We'd also be happy if Israel and Palestine would just learn to chill and get along.
Having something as an ideal does not mean you are ignorant of the myriad of problems that make it impractical in reality. Often it makes you all the more aware of them.

[Sheilbh]

I think Jos and Sheilbh are both on the would be happy to have personal cars gone side.

Eventually - I think that should be the policy goal - how do we get to zero personal cars.

I think it's a bit like meat consumption with the developments in cheaper and cheaper lab-grown meat. I think individuals owning their own internal combustion engine powered vehicle will be looked on by future generations with incredulity.

[The Brain]

In the UK it is probably politically possible to limit car usage to posh people whose ancestors came over with the Conqueror. Other countries are less lucky with deeply ingrained grovelling instincts.

[garbon]

I think Jos and Sheilbh are both on the would be happy to have personal cars gone side.

Eventually - I think that should be the policy goal - how do we get to zero personal cars.

I think it's a bit like meat consumption with the developments in cheaper and cheaper lab-grown meat. I think individuals owning their own internal combustion engine powered vehicle will be looked on by future generations with incredulity.

Whereas that strikes me as an unreasonable ideal for our lifetimes unless we are only talking about geographically tiny countries.

[Josquius]

I think Jos and Sheilbh are both on the would be happy to have personal cars gone side.

Eventually - I think that should be the policy goal - how do we get to zero personal cars.

I think it's a bit like meat consumption with the developments in cheaper and cheaper lab-grown meat. I think individuals owning their own internal combustion engine powered vehicle will be looked on by future generations with incredulity.

Whereas that strikes me as an unreasonable ideal for our lifetimes unless we are only talking about geographically tiny countries.

But what's the difference whether you're talking about Belgium or the West Midlands or Greater Atlanta?

[Oexmelin]

Americans only do their daily commutes by plane.

[Barrister]

I think Jos and Sheilbh are both on the would be happy to have personal cars gone side.

Eventually - I think that should be the policy goal - how do we get to zero personal cars.

I think it's a bit like meat consumption with the developments in cheaper and cheaper lab-grown meat. I think individuals owning their own internal combustion engine powered vehicle will be looked on by future generations with incredulity.

Look, I'm a proponent of urban transit and look forward to getting back on the LRT once this pandemic is over.  I'm all for increased electrification of vehicles.

But there is no reasonable prospect of getting to zero ICE vehicles any time soon.  Forget smaller centres - there's still a lot of people who live in straight-up rural areas.  I just drove a 780km drive (one way), then unfortunately had to turn around and drive back.  There's a whole lot of farmland out there.  Because I was travelling on the main highway I theoretically could have gotten away with an electric vehicle, but as soon as you get off the big highways and onto the secondary ones, forget about it.

And that's before I start talking about northern Canada.

[Sheilbh]

Whereas that strikes me as an unreasonable ideal for our lifetimes unless we are only talking about geographically tiny countries.

I think we'll see geographically tiny countries moving to that within the next couple of decades - I definitely think we'll probably see it witihin our lifetimes.

But in fairness my suspicion is that the energy transition is probably going to be as seismic between now and my hypothetical death on my 100th birthday in a Palm Springs pool. I think our daily lives will look as different over the next 50-60 years for someone from, say, pre-WW1 to the 1960s. I think we are about to enter a period of significant and accelerating change.

And in the same way as I think America was at the cutting edge of that transformation - especially the car. I think this will be Asia at the cutting edge, especially China, because frankly what we in the UK do about climate is broadly irrelevant compared to the adjustment that China needs to make to meet their own targets (which I think they will).