Military coup in Myanmar

[Threviel]

In the large Swedish city that I have experience with (Gothenburg) there's an area where largely muslim gangs rule and where even police fear to go. It's been like that since the the immigrant crisis. When I lived in the city, until 2008 it was an area of ex-Yugoslav gangs, mostly Albanians. Before that, in the eighties and early nineties there was no clear majority immigration group, but still a dangerous place full of the poor and uneducated masses. Before that, in the 70s there were Finns. Before that the poor dangerous people were Swedes and lived in the City centre that got torn down to build shopping malls and they got moved to to this suburb.

For each and every population change there's been arguments that that special kind of foreigner is dangerous because of reasons and each and every time they've clawed themselves out of poverty and moved somewhere better. I expect the muslims will do the same in time and they will become rich and won't have to turn to religion to find solace in their miserable poor lives.

So, in a generation the muslims will have moved somewhere better and the Brits will start to immigrate in a massive wave and they will dangerous because of reasons and we'll start to talk about how anglicans are dangerous.

[Maladict]

For each and every population change there's been arguments that that special kind of foreigner is dangerous because of reasons and each and every time they've clawed themselves out of poverty and moved somewhere better. I expect the muslims will do the same in time and they will become rich and won't have to turn to religion to find solace in their miserable poor lives.

So, in a generation the muslims will have moved somewhere better and the Brits will start to immigrate in a massive wave and they will dangerous because of reasons and we'll start to talk about how anglicans are dangerous.

Exactly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cgeXd5kRDg

[viper37]

Viper, I'm gonna need you to connect those dots for me.

Christianity was used to support slavery (and to fight it as well).  Just like Islam.
When you listen to KKK types, they describe themselves as extremely religious, and are implementing the will of God.

I don't see much differences.

[Eddie Teach]

Perhaps, but slavery existed long before Christianity and in societies with no Christian presence.

[crazy canuck]

CC, 8chan is the one you are looking to send Ovb back to.

Thanks, double what I said. 

[viper37]

Perhaps, but slavery existed long before Christianity and in societies with no Christian presence.

True, but we were talking about white supremacy, the idea that being White makes you so superior that others can/should be enslaved for their benefit.  That is deeply rooted in Christianity.  And I'm also aware that the opposite is also true: Middle aged Christianity was used to fight against the idea of slavery, especially of owning christian slaves.  Same as Islam, really.

My point is that both religions are equally "evil", as "evil" as the men practicing it can be.

[grumbler]

Perhaps, but slavery existed long before Christianity and in societies with no Christian presence.

True, but we were talking about white supremacy, the idea that being White makes you so superior that others can/should be enslaved for their benefit.  That is deeply rooted in Christianity.  And I'm also aware that the opposite is also true: Middle aged Christianity was used to fight against the idea of slavery, especially of owning christian slaves.  Same as Islam, really.

My point is that both religions are equally "evil", as "evil" as the men practicing it can be.

White Supremacy is not at all "deeply rooted in Christianity."  The majority of Christians in the world don't consider themselves "white."  Christianity existed before chattel slavery.  Christian church leaders were at the forefront of the antislavery movements.  The first formal protests against slavery in the US came from the Quakers, who also banned their members from holding slaves in 1776. William Wilberforce's antislavery actions began after undergoing evangelical Christian conversion.

There were certainly "Christian" voices that condined and even encouraged slavery, but it cannot be argued that white supremacy "is deeply rooted in Christianity."

You can be anti-Christian without being anti-fact.

[Malthus]

Still does not make islam itself toxic (any more than most other religions I mean), that's two different issues.

No other religion (Judaism might be an exception, not sure) has a divinely inspired death penalty for apostasy.

Judaism's position is a bit odd (in keeping with Judaism, which does everthing a bit oddly).

In Deuteronomy worshiping of other gods is punishable by death. https://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0513.htm#6

However, it is worth noting that modern Jewish interpretations of the (numerous) death penalties in the OT are, basically, that they are not to be followed - that the evidentiary and procedural requirements for a death penalty were raised so high as to, deliberately, make the penalty impossible in reality to ever actually inflict. All major denominations of Judaism believe this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Judaism

So in theory the religion penalizes apostasy with death, but never in practice.

[Valmy]

Moses has been outlawyered.

[grumbler]

Still does not make islam itself toxic (any more than most other religions I mean), that's two different issues.

No other religion (Judaism might be an exception, not sure) has a divinely inspired death penalty for apostasy.

Judaism's position is a bit odd (in keeping with Judaism, which does everthing a bit oddly).

In Deuteronomy worshiping of other gods is punishable by death. https://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0513.htm#6

However, it is worth noting that modern Jewish interpretations of the (numerous) death penalties in the OT are, basically, that they are not to be followed - that the evidentiary and procedural requirements for a death penalty were raised so high as to, deliberately, make the penalty impossible in reality to ever actually inflict. All major denominations of Judaism believe this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Judaism

So in theory the religion penalizes apostasy with death, but never in practice.

That's generally the case in Islamic countries with apostasy laws as well.  Lots of civil and criminal penalties short of death, though, which isn't the case with Judaism.

[Valmy]

That's generally the case in Islamic countries with apostasy laws as well.  Lots of civil and criminal penalties short of death, though, which isn't the case with Judaism.

Yeah it is still a crime and often a source of devastating social shunning and pressure.

The apostasy issue is definitely an area of concern. Apostates need to be protected where applicable.

[viper37]

That's generally the case in Islamic countries with apostasy laws as well.  Lots of civil and criminal penalties short of death, though, which isn't the case with Judaism.

Yeah it is still a crime and often a source of devastating social shunning and pressure.

The apostasy issue is definitely an area of concern. Apostates need to be protected where applicable.

devastating social shunning will happen with some christian denominations.  I know the Jeovah's Witnesses and some Mormont for sure, but in the vast realm of Protestantism, I'm pretty sure there will be also be social exclusions in many places, most likely smaller, thighter knit communities.  I recently read about a former Evangelist who lost all contact with her mother and family following her decision to leave their religious community. 

In Judaism, I think only some of the Ultra-Orthodox communities will shun their former members if they leave the sect.  Am I correct in assuming this, Malthus?

[viper37]

Perhaps, but slavery existed long before Christianity and in societies with no Christian presence.

True, but we were talking about white supremacy, the idea that being White makes you so superior that others can/should be enslaved for their benefit.  That is deeply rooted in Christianity.  And I'm also aware that the opposite is also true: Middle aged Christianity was used to fight against the idea of slavery, especially of owning christian slaves.  Same as Islam, really.

My point is that both religions are equally "evil", as "evil" as the men practicing it can be.

White Supremacy is not at all "deeply rooted in Christianity."  The majority of Christians in the world don't consider themselves "white."  Christianity existed before chattel slavery.  Christian church leaders were at the forefront of the antislavery movements.  The first formal protests against slavery in the US came from the Quakers, who also banned their members from holding slaves in 1776. William Wilberforce's antislavery actions began after undergoing evangelical Christian conversion.

There were certainly "Christian" voices that condined and even encouraged slavery, but it cannot be argued that white supremacy "is deeply rooted in Christianity."

You can be anti-Christian without being anti-fact.

https://www.newyorker.com/books/under-review/american-christianitys-white-supremacy-problem
https://time.com/5929478/christianity-white-supremacy/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/08/03/how-white-supremacy-infected-christianity-republican-party/
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/racism-among-white-christians-higher-among-nonreligious-s-no-coincidence-ncna1235045
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/white-christian-america-needs-moral-awakening/614641/
https://www.npr.org/2020/07/01/883115867/white-supremacist-ideas-have-historical-roots-in-u-s-christianity
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/white-supremacy-christianity-robert-jones_n_5f19f5abc5b6296fbf3fc4f8?ri18n=true
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/18/books/review/white-too-long-robert-p-jones.html
https://rowman.com/ISBN/9781498538763/The-Religion-of-White-Supremacy-in-the-United-States
https://marginalia.lareviewofbooks.org/how-i-learned-white-supremacy/
https://commonhymnal.com/blog/christian-white-supremacy-101
https://www.amazon.com/Sin-White-Supremacy-Christianity-Religious/dp/1626982376
https://www.christiancentury.org/article/critical-essay/theological-work-antiracism-needs-include-lament

[grumbler]

   I have an argument and evidence, and you have some random links with no argument and maybe no evidence.  I don't think you quite get the concept of a dialectic.

[Josquius]

It's funny that some people get their pants in such a twist over Muslims because islamophobia is such a recent thing.
In the mid 20th century Muslim immigration was actively encouraged as Muslims were seen as far less culturally alien, harder working, and generally more law abiding and all round better than Hindus or others.
I wonder how long this will continue before the far right find some other group to hate. I wonder if we are seeing stirrings of the change today with a neo yellow peril and Muslims being victims or the evil Chinese.