Quo Vadis GOP?

[Barrister]

I don't think what he was saying required an example.  How do you even support with specific examples an assertion that protections of free speech from the government coupled with cancel culture still leads to no free speech in society?  That's a reasoning-based argument:  you either feel free for your words to match your thinking, in which case society can openly discuss how to solve problems, or you're not, regardless of what entity makes you say things different to what you're thinking.  Do you really need specific examples to see how this environment leads to suboptimal decision-making?

The problem is that his visual aid doesn't distinguish between PC censorship and societal norms.  I assume there are people in the world who really want to say "I hate niggers" or "I hate fags."  Suppressing or punishing that speech is not what I would characterize as PC censorship.

There's always a question of degree and kind to this stuff, which is what makes defining "wokeism" challenging.

Take, for example, a customer-facing employee who keeps calling customers the n-word to their face in a derogatory fashion, and is subsequently fired.  And (from a real world example) a NYT reporter in a private discussion on whether it's okay to use the n-word, says the n-word, and is then subsequently fired.

I mean both are examples of someone being fired for using the n-word - but I think most rational people think the first example is fine, and the second ridiculous.

[Barrister]

Let's change the subject back to more Florida shenanigans.

Florida Bill Would Require That Bloggers Who Write About Ron DeSantis And Other Officials To Register With State Or Face Fines

So of course on the one hand it's simply a bill, and I question how likely it is to even come to a vote.

On the second hand, surely this would be struck down immediately for violating the first amendment.

And the third hand though - for fuck sakes why on earth would someone even attach their name to this?

[Valmy]

C'mon DG, Lay it on us.  Don't make us guess.

I'm pretty curious too.

DG, do you want to PM me so you get a first hearing with a sympathetic audience? I promise not to cancel you.

It's nothing all that interesting or even exceedingly controversial, I promise you.  I realize that by saying "I don't want to talk about it" I made it sound like I have some bombshell to share that would surely get me canceled, but I really just wanted to make a point that I'm not comfortable having a detailed discussion anymore on some subjects, at least not in public and not in writing.  At least in private verbal conversation I can't be taken out of context, and also in private conversations the other person is free from having to put on a performance and thus can discuss things productively.

I mean is this in public though? None of us really know who you are and this is an obscure forum unknown to all but a tiny group of people. Seems to me this is a safe space to try out ideas and say things you aren't sure are right, but just want somebody to talk them out.

[Valmy]

Let's change the subject back to more Florida shenanigans.

Florida Bill Would Require That Bloggers Who Write About Ron DeSantis And Other Officials To Register With State Or Face Fines

So of course on the one hand it's simply a bill, and I question how likely it is to even come to a vote.

On the second hand, surely this would be struck down immediately for violating the first amendment.

And the third hand though - for fuck sakes why on earth would someone even attach their name to this?

Also the term "blog" seems weirdly anachronistic. Are blogs still getting so much traffic that people are receiving big bucks to say things on blogs? Do people still maintain websites for their blogs outside of the big social media platforms?

I guess podcasts would be the main thing that would qualify. Still kind of weird terminology to use.

[DGuller]

I mean is this in public though? None of us really know who you are and this is an obscure forum unknown to all but a tiny group of people. Seems to me this is a safe space to try out ideas and say things you aren't sure are right, but just want somebody to talk them out.

Anything on the Internet is public.

[Valmy]

I mean is this in public though? None of us really know who you are and this is an obscure forum unknown to all but a tiny group of people. Seems to me this is a safe space to try out ideas and say things you aren't sure are right, but just want somebody to talk them out.

Anything on the Internet is public.

I guess. But everything you say in person could technically be secretly recorded by somebody's cell phone and in most states in the US that is even legal to do. How much security do you need? Besides at this point in our lives I think it is a fair guess that none of us are going to be public figures that would even justify somebody's time to figure out our real identification and then start going through Languish to find juicy quotes.

Besides like 99.9% of the time I see people getting cancelled it is shit they posted on a big social media site under their real name. I hardly ever see people's reddit profile used to go after them, and Languish is hardly reddit.

[DGuller]

I guess. But everything you say in person could technically be secretly recorded by somebody's cell phone and in most states in the US that is even legal to do. How much security do you need? Besides at this point in our lives I think it is a fair guess that none of us are going to be public figures that would even justify somebody's time to figure out our real identification and then start going through Languish to find juicy quotes.

I would guess there is about a 0.01% chance of you being recorded in a private conversation, and the on top of that you still have to say something that with bad faith can be used against you.  There is 100% chance of being recorded in a written conversation on a public forum.

[crazy canuck]

I hate the Icelandic.  I don't care if it gets me canceled.

Finally, someone with courage.   

[Valmy]

I guess. But everything you say in person could technically be secretly recorded by somebody's cell phone and in most states in the US that is even legal to do. How much security do you need? Besides at this point in our lives I think it is a fair guess that none of us are going to be public figures that would even justify somebody's time to figure out our real identification and then start going through Languish to find juicy quotes.

I would guess there is about a 0.01% chance of you being recorded in a private conversation, and the on top of that you still have to say something that with bad faith can be used against you.  There is 100% chance of being recorded in a written conversation on a public forum.

I don't know man. That seems excessively paranoid. Is there even a single example of a situation of anybody being cancelled for posting controversial things on a Languish equivalent?

Especially since I doubt anything you have to say is all that controversial.

[Razgovory]

I guess. But everything you say in person could technically be secretly recorded by somebody's cell phone and in most states in the US that is even legal to do. How much security do you need? Besides at this point in our lives I think it is a fair guess that none of us are going to be public figures that would even justify somebody's time to figure out our real identification and then start going through Languish to find juicy quotes.

I would guess there is about a 0.01% chance of you being recorded in a private conversation, and the on top of that you still have to say something that with bad faith can be used against you.  There is 100% chance of being recorded in a written conversation on a public forum.

You really were born in the Soviet Union.

[Valmy]

My main anxiety about posting stupid shit on Languish is less that I get cancelled by angry irrational internet mobs but rather that I piss somebody off so much that they leave the website.

There are dozens of examples of that happening (though only a few were the result of something I personally said). That sucks.

I don't think most of us want to offend or piss off any of our friends here, we are just talking through thoughts. It's rough though.

[PDH]

My main anxiety about posting stupid shit on Languish is less that I get cancelled by angry irrational internet mobs but rather that I piss somebody off so much that they leave the website.

There are dozens of examples of that happening (though only a few were the result of something I personally said). That sucks.

I don't think most of us want to offend or piss off any of our friends here, we are just talking through thoughts. It's rough though.

That's it, I have had enough.

Purge Valmy.

[Valmy]

My main anxiety about posting stupid shit on Languish is less that I get cancelled by angry irrational internet mobs but rather that I piss somebody off so much that they leave the website.

There are dozens of examples of that happening (though only a few were the result of something I personally said). That sucks.

I don't think most of us want to offend or piss off any of our friends here, we are just talking through thoughts. It's rough though.

That's it, I have had enough.

Purge Valmy.

Noooooooo! I didn't mean it! 

[Grey Fox]

I'll turn the lights off. Too much of my identity is tied to this place for me to leave it permanently.

[Valmy]

I'll turn the lights off. Too much of my identity is tied to this place for me to leave it permanently.

I would say I would pass it on to my children but I have a hard time imagining any of them posting on an internet forum like its 2005 or something.