Armenia-Azerbaijan War

[Hamilcar]

From my understanding, Nagorno-Karabakh (spelling?) is an Armenian-majority enclave within Azerbaijan. In late 80s/early 90s they wanted to break away from Azerbaijan/join Armenia, but Azerbaijan wouldn't have any of it. Fighting ensues.

From my understanding it's based primarily on ethnic/religious divisions, not strategical value of territory.

Wiki says there was fighting in early part of 20th century and then Soviet Era frozen the conflict.

So basically they were having ethnic blood feuds and the Soviets put them in timeout for the 20th century?

More Stalin took it off Armenia and gave it to Azerbaijan specifically to encourage the ethnic blood feuds and make sure if shit did go down that Armenia with all it's western links would be on the back foot.

Ah, he copied the British! 

[Duque de Bragança]

Le Monde says already one third of the Armenian population has been "exiled", i.e 42,500 people.

https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2023/09/27/haut-karabakh-l-azerbaidjan-annonce-que-192-de-ses-soldats-sont-morts-dans-l-offensive-militaire-42-500-armeniens-exiles_6191195_3210.html

[mongers]

What I don't get about the conflict is what they're really fighting over seems so worthless - a bunch of poor mountain valleys. What am I missing? Are these valleys ALSO highly strategic trade corridors? Do they have giant natural gas reserves?

The same could be said of Switzerland.

[grumbler]

What I don't get about the conflict is what they're really fighting over seems so worthless - a bunch of poor mountain valleys. What am I missing? Are these valleys ALSO highly strategic trade corridors? Do they have giant natural gas reserves?

Mountainous areas the ones likeliest to have numerous intermingled ethnic enclaves and every language wants its own army.

[Hamilcar]

What I don't get about the conflict is what they're really fighting over seems so worthless - a bunch of poor mountain valleys. What am I missing? Are these valleys ALSO highly strategic trade corridors? Do they have giant natural gas reserves?

The same could be said of Switzerland.

So the Alps ARE a highly strategic trade corridor.

[Josquius]

Ireland is just a soggy swamp off europes coast, the Netherlands a pile of sand at the mouth of the Rhein, Thailand a scorching hot jungle of deadly death....
They're still home to their people.

[Sheilbh]

Total aside - but that description of Thailand again has me thinking you have slightly eccentric views of other countries

[HVC]

Total aside - but that description of Thailand again has me thinking you have slightly eccentric views of other countries

But you agree with the other two descriptions?

[Sheilbh]

But you agree with the other two descriptions?

They're not a million miles off

[HVC]

But you agree with the other two descriptions?

They're not a million miles off

Thailand is a beachy paradise,  albeit one with a lady boy minefield 

[Maladict]

the Netherlands a pile of sand at the mouth of the Rhein,

Not true. It's only about 47-48% sand.

[Josquius]

And the rest concrete? :p

Total aside - but that description of Thailand again has me thinking you have slightly eccentric views of other countries

The descriptions being ridiculous and over the top was the point.
But humid scorching jungles are the country's main natural offering.

[Razgovory]

I've been reading the Pdox forums lately and there is plenty of justifying what the Azeris are doing.

That's mad - why? Who? Is it just lots of Ottoman fanbois?

An example that I saw today

"This is a direct act of ethnic cleansing and deportation, of which we have been warning the international community for a long time," the Armenian prime minister claimed

YEREVAN, September 28. /TASS/. Armenian Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan believes that no Armenian population will be left in Nagorno-Karabakh in the coming days.

"Analysis shows that in the coming days there will be no more Armenians left in Nagorno-Karabakh. This is a direct act of ethnic cleansing and deportation, of which we have been warning the international community for a long time," he said at a government meeting.

Like, huh? The Azeri army crosses over the demarcation line and the next minute the bulk of Armenian population decides they don't want to live under Azerbaijan who THEY ARE CERTAIN will kill them all, just like their own parents killed and displaced all the Azeri people in Artsakh.

I can see the point of leaving. I probably would, too, if I were living there. But the rhetoric. Like, can you get any more pathetic.

When you make predictions that you are certain you will make true on your own accord, before anyone else has a chance to do it for you. That's not a particularly great way of communication.

Genocide, pah. These guys live in their own world, they now suffer as victims exactly what they inflicted as perpetrators before and what they dream of doing again as soon as they get the chance.

Pashinyan's declaration that "no more Armenians will be left" is an implied threat that if anyone who actually wants to stay, Pashinyan will wash his hands of those persons and do nothing for them. In German we call such statements "Armutszeugnis". He's not even trying. He wants everyone to leave because he doesn't want the bother of trying to engage with Azerbaijan over the rights of any Armenians who want to stay against recommendations.

1000 or 2000 years of history of Armenians in Karabakh, what is that worth now? Nothing, not in its eyes? No talk of trying to resolve this, no talk of a better future for Armenians in Karabakh in the indeterminate future. Last time we had such doomy declarations was in 1945.

Was the argument about history ever sincere? Did they actually think the history of their people in that place was a thing of value? Or was it always just a fig leaf to hide their belief in the normative power of the gun? The history of the place, suddenly it's not worth anything. It's only worth something when you can stand on it, with a gun in hand. When the gun is gone, who cares about the history, everyone leave, burn everything, and everyone who doesn't leave deserves the scorn of the people.

How about he says openly, what he wants? "Please everyone leave, because our neighbors whom we genocided in the 90s are the devil, and I don't want to deal with the aftermath if any of you disagree now or in the future. Please make this easier for me and don't stay. Please let this be forever, don't ever go there again, don't ask me to think of a future for you. It's too much bother. Just flush the last 2000 years of history in Karabakh down the toilet, forget they ever happened, forget your forefathers were part of that."

I am not going to follow this thread any more. So disgusted.

[Tamas]