Coronavirus Sars-CoV-2/Covid-19 Megathread

[Barrister]

But I would've hoped that the US would have co-ordinated it's vaccine production and distribution with its allies.

THIS I do agree with, but you know...Trump.

But he is gone, and the approach that the US is actually taking, right now, makes perfect fucking sense from any reasonable perspective.

The US is saying:

1. US produced supplies of raw materials needed for vaccine production will be prioritized to US manufacturers of vaccine. That makes perfect sense - of course we are going to use US produced raw materials for US production, it would be inefficient to do otherwise, and make no sense if the goal is to produce as much vaccine as possible.

2. With the vaccine produced, the US will PRIORITIZE getting US citizens vaccinated. This is not a ban, and does not say that every low risk US citizen MUST be vaccinated before any vaccine leaves the country. It does mean that the US will focus our efforts on getting our citizens vaccinated with US produced vaccine first.

3. Once the US is largely vaccinated, which they are now saying is literally weeks away, that US production of vaccine, on the order of projected billions of doses, will be used to get the rest of the world vaccinated, in concert with other vaccine producing nations.

Someone tell me what is so appaling about that. What I find amusing is that this is all in direct contravention to the "normal" bitch about the US - that we just want to make money off of everyone else. If that were the case, the US pharma companies would be selling this shit outside the US where they can make bank selling to other countries, but the US government has used its power to basically say "Nope, this is not going to be a way for pharma to make even more cash selling to the highest bidder!". Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

What is so appalling is that no other country on the earth is doing this.

The UK demands priority - but the AZ vaccine is being exported from the UK.

The EU has no export controls - which is why its vaccines are being sent all over the world.

[Berkut]

It is painfully clear how the US can get away with what they have done.  Their citizens have no clue.

And what is it that the US has done, exactly, that we are so clueless about?

We prioritized the US use of US produced raw materials to produce US produced vaccine to vaccinate American citizens, with the plan that once that is complete, we will then ship vaccine elsewhere.

Show me the part that is such a travesty. Still waiting for that. What should the US have done instead?

Well that. Be a concern citizen of the world & share some of the massive vaccine production the USA has. 58 days in the Biden presidency 100 millions dose have being used. Could have spared 5% of that to let Pfizer sell them to Canada.

Why Canada? WHy not Brazil? Belgium? Mozambique?

Now, I don't actually disagree with you, really. I would have been perfectly fine with the US saying "We are going to prioritize US production for US citizens, which is why we are guaranteeing that 95% of all US produced vaccine will be consumed in the US before anymore goes outside the US!" and I wish they had, but I don't think that is a huge difference in actual world outcomes. What we should all care about is getting as many people vaccinated as quickly as possible, and that means understanding actual political realities. We have a system of nations, and those nations are going to priorize taking care of their own citizens first.

If you want to compare the US to the EU, then fine - I will claim that the US is really just 50 separate states, and why, we are all cooperating with each other in the same way the EU is, what swell chaps we all are!

But this idea that the US is somehow obligated to us vaccine produced in the US with US raw materials and US funds and US research to prioritize non-US consumption (which is the very definition of NOT prioritizing US consumption) is simply silly.

And, just to circle back, that isn't even what CC's article was about that got everyone all engraged. That article was about the US prioritizing the use of US raw materials for US production. Which given the GLOBAL shortage of those supplies, makes perfect sense.

[Berkut]

But I would've hoped that the US would have co-ordinated it's vaccine production and distribution with its allies.

THIS I do agree with, but you know...Trump.

But he is gone, and the approach that the US is actually taking, right now, makes perfect fucking sense from any reasonable perspective.

The US is saying:

1. US produced supplies of raw materials needed for vaccine production will be prioritized to US manufacturers of vaccine. That makes perfect sense - of course we are going to use US produced raw materials for US production, it would be inefficient to do otherwise, and make no sense if the goal is to produce as much vaccine as possible.

2. With the vaccine produced, the US will PRIORITIZE getting US citizens vaccinated. This is not a ban, and does not say that every low risk US citizen MUST be vaccinated before any vaccine leaves the country. It does mean that the US will focus our efforts on getting our citizens vaccinated with US produced vaccine first.

3. Once the US is largely vaccinated, which they are now saying is literally weeks away, that US production of vaccine, on the order of projected billions of doses, will be used to get the rest of the world vaccinated, in concert with other vaccine producing nations.

Someone tell me what is so appaling about that. What I find amusing is that this is all in direct contravention to the "normal" bitch about the US - that we just want to make money off of everyone else. If that were the case, the US pharma companies would be selling this shit outside the US where they can make bank selling to other countries, but the US government has used its power to basically say "Nope, this is not going to be a way for pharma to make even more cash selling to the highest bidder!". Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

What is so appalling is that no other country on the earth is doing this.

The UK demands priority - but the AZ vaccine is being exported from the UK.

The EU has no export controls - which is why its vaccines are being sent all over the world.

No other country on the Earth is doing this? Really?

So Canada is sending its vaccines supplies outside of Canada? Really?

They are buying vaccine, and then sending that vaccine to some other country?

[Grey Fox]

The USA did not develop the Pfizer or the AZ vaccines.

Yes, Berkut. Canada is doing that thru WHO CoVax scheme.

[Barrister]

No other country on the Earth is doing this? Really?

So Canada is sending its vaccines supplies outside of Canada? Really?

They are buying vaccine, and then sending that vaccine to some other country?

I'm not sure why you're conflating purchases with production.

[Barrister]

The USA did not develop the Pfizer or the AZ vaccines.

Yes, Berkut. Canada is doing that thru WHO CoVax scheme.

The USA is also using foreign inputs in its US production.

Heck the US is also purchasing vaccine from Europe!

[Berkut]

No other country on the Earth is doing this? Really?

So Canada is sending its vaccines supplies outside of Canada? Really?

They are buying vaccine, and then sending that vaccine to some other country?

I'm not sure why you're conflating purchases with production.

Because for the purposes of this "moral" argument you are making, how you came about the vaccine should not matter.

The US produces a crapload of vaccine it is using to vaccinate Americans.

Canada is buying vaccine it is using to vaccinate Candians.

Either way, each nation is using the vaccine it has on hand to vaccinate its people. Canada buys it because they have no ability to produce it. The US produces it because they can.

Why isn't Canada buying vaccine to send to other countries, say 5% of it? Why is 100% of Canada's vaccine it has come by going to Canadians? Shouldn't they be sharing that, the same way you insist that the US share the vaccine they have come by through production?

[Maladict]

This thread is finally starting to deliver.

[Grey Fox]

By the way, this entire discussion is why the WHO was so annoyed that Countries were doing direct purchase of the vaccines instead of buying them using CoVax to ensure an equal & fair distribution of the production power of the world.

I think Berkut & other Americans do not realize how distributed chains of productions are nowadays. I work for an American company, some of the stuff I make helps to defend the USA nuclear weapons and other stuff is especially made outside the USA because ITAR is too harsh for the American owners.

[Berkut]

The USA did not develop the Pfizer or the AZ vaccines.

Yes, Berkut. Canada is doing that thru WHO CoVax scheme.

The USA is also using foreign inputs in its US production.

Heck the US is also purchasing vaccine from Europe!

Of course - the US is a global player, and I am sure it uses stuff from other countries.

I am also sure those other countries are prioritizing their own production (if they can) before sending materials to the US. I am confident, for example, that India is not producing any less vaccine because they are sending raw materials that they could use to produce more vaccine, to the US. At least, I sure hope they are not - their production of AZ is critical, since it has some advatnages over Pfizer and Moderna with its less stringent storage requirements.

[Berkut]

The USA did not develop the Pfizer or the AZ vaccines.

Yes, Berkut. Canada is doing that thru WHO CoVax scheme.

The USA is also using foreign inputs in its US production.

Heck the US is also purchasing vaccine from Europe!

Wait - you mean the US actually IS involved in a global market and cooperation for this! OMG, please, go tell CC.

[Berkut]

By the way, this entire discussion is why the WHO was so annoyed that Countries were doing direct purchase of the vaccines instead of buying them using CoVax to ensure an equal & fair distribution of the production power of the world.

I think Berkut & other Americans do not realize how distributed chains of productions are nowadays. I work for an American company, some of the stuff I make helps to defend the USA nuclear weapons and other stuff is especially made outside the USA because ITAR is too harsh for the American owners.

ACtually, it is exactly because I *do* understand that that I could immediately see through CC's bullshit about how the US is crippling worldwide production by not sharing supplies. The very article he posted to "support" that claim refuted it directly.

The US relies on supplies from around the world, and the world relies on supplies from the US. Which is why when there is a GLOBAL shortage of some critically need piece of equipment, supply, or raw material, it is fucking stupid to go on some rant about how the US won't share what the US produces with other countries. Sharing, in that case, by definition CANNOT increase production, it can only move where production is happening, and REDUCE total production due to the added cost of shipment.

[Grey Fox]

What I find amusing is that this is all in direct contravention to the "normal" bitch about the US - that we just want to make money off of everyone else. If that were the case, the US pharma companies would be selling this shit outside the US where they can make bank selling to other countries, but the US government has used its power to basically say "Nope, this is not going to be a way for pharma to make even more cash selling to the highest bidder!". Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Yeah, totally. The Pfizer CEO was not amused.

[Syt]

Tests show that the "British" B1.1.7 mutation is currently 90% of all cases in Vienna and similar in much of Eastern Austria - one of the reasons numbers have been rising again. It's also leading to hospitals filling faster compared to similar infection rates in autumn.

[Jacob]

I'd kind of forgotten how languish could get