How Democracy Dies

[Valmy]

ANd this is not the fringe of the left - the fear of saying the wrong thing is real.

It's more that nowadays, you cannot say whatever insensitive shit you want without receiving criticism from previously silenced groups who in the past had to just grin and bear it. That leads to some people crying that their "freedom of speech" is being limited because their words now actually have consequences.

One would think people who had been silenced would be more sensitive to creating an environment where words carry dire consequences. But I guess their problems was that the wrong people were being silenced?

[Solmyr]

ANd this is not the fringe of the left - the fear of saying the wrong thing is real.

It's more that nowadays, you cannot say whatever insensitive shit you want without receiving criticism from previously silenced groups who in the past had to just grin and bear it. That leads to some people crying that their "freedom of speech" is being limited because their words now actually have consequences.

One would think people who had been silenced would be more sensitive to creating an environment where words carry dire consequences. But I guess their problems was that the wrong people were being silenced?

I don't think the consequences today are as dire as you claim. Sure, someone might lose their job (and rightly so) if they spew outright racist hate, but even that is not a given, what with your President still having a job. That's a far cry from what women, ethnic or sexual minorities had to endure in the past.

[grumbler]

Well they were brought up recently.

In any case "guys" is kind of a weird idiom, as it is often used just to be "you" kind of like y'all.

I see almost every week in school a female address an all-female group starting with "guys, ..."  It has long lost its gendered meaning when used that way.  Personally, I try to teach students to avoid the use of meaningless phrases ("uh, guys.." or "listen up" and, in writing, "be advised that..." "this is to let you know that..." and the like).  But it's hard and people use "hey guys" as a stalling tactic while they get their thoughts in order.

[Zoupa]

Yes, you stand on this soap box all the time. What are you doing to change it?

Standing on this soap box and arguing with people who insist it is all made up fake news.

Was there something else I should be doing?

So you really do have a lot of time on your hands 

[Berkut]

ANd this is not the fringe of the left - the fear of saying the wrong thing is real.

It's more that nowadays, you cannot say whatever insensitive shit you want without receiving criticism from previously silenced groups who in the past had to just grin and bear it. That leads to some people crying that their "freedom of speech" is being limited because their words now actually have consequences.

I think that is a gross over-simplification. If that were the case, people like me wouldn't have a problem with it.

While it is true that previously acceptable insensitive bullshit now gets called out, what *also* gets called out is people simply expressing perfectly reasonable, not insensitive thoughts that have the form or resemblance, often in trivial ways, with supposedly insensitive shit. Like referring to a group of people as "guys".

[Berkut]

ANd this is not the fringe of the left - the fear of saying the wrong thing is real.

It's more that nowadays, you cannot say whatever insensitive shit you want without receiving criticism from previously silenced groups who in the past had to just grin and bear it. That leads to some people crying that their "freedom of speech" is being limited because their words now actually have consequences.

One would think people who had been silenced would be more sensitive to creating an environment where words carry dire consequences. But I guess their problems was that the wrong people were being silenced?

I don't think the consequences today are as dire as you claim. Sure, someone might lose their job (and rightly so) if they spew outright racist hate, but even that is not a given, what with your President still having a job. That's a far cry from what women, ethnic or sexual minorities had to endure in the past.

What about people losing their jobs for saying things that are not hateful or racist?

Like the Netflix exec using the N word to actually illustrate insensitivity? Or educators being forced to resign because some left wing nuts decided their class was not woke enough?

This is language policing - the attempt to control the content of conversation by making subjects taboo. It is bizarre and disturbing how fast the left has come to embrace a culture of controlled speech.

[Solmyr]

Somehow I doubt this is actually as widespread and major a problem as you claim. Sure, when it happens it's stupid. But it does not give any cause to equate "the left" embracing controlled speech and the right enabling racism and white supremacy.

[Admiral Yi]

He said nothing whatsoever about the magnitude of the problem.

[Solmyr]

He said nothing whatsoever about the magnitude of the problem.

The way he whines about it on the forum you'd think it's the biggest problem ever.

[Admiral Yi]

The way he whines about it on the forum you'd think it's the biggest problem ever.

Or....

he thinks it's the one societal problem that his own efforts can impact most positively.

[Zoupa]

The way he whines about it on the forum you'd think it's the biggest problem ever.

Or....

he thinks it's the one societal problem that his own efforts can impact most positively.

Really? Is Berkut reaching out to the DSA or something?

[Admiral Yi]

Really? Is Berkut reaching out to the DSA or something?

Languish chapter.

[Berkut]

The way he whines about it on the forum you'd think it's the biggest problem ever.

Or....

he thinks it's the one societal problem that his own efforts can impact most positively.

I whine it about it because it is a problem that is resulting in the left politically damaging itself at a time when that is really, really consequential.

I think I've stated about a dozen times that I don't think there is any kind of equivalency between the scale of how fucked up the rights crazies are and the lefts crazies. Its getting pretty tiring repeating it, just to have someone make the exact same accusation again.

But whatever.

The left woke silliness is normally something to just laugh at. But right now, it results in them losing elections (not just the Presidency, there are lots of OTHER elections in this country, and the fucking oh so brilliant elite woke left loses most of them) to a populist party of douchebags dominated by faux religious dumbasses and truly radicalized anti-intellectual bigots.

So while the dumbass left is not nearly as horrifying as the dumb ass right for a variety of reasons, I don't care about the dumb ass right, because I want them to lose lose lose lose. I want the left to win, so I care more about them doing things that I think are stupid anyway, AND result in them losing.

[Berkut]

He said nothing whatsoever about the magnitude of the problem.

The way he whines about it on the forum you'd think it's the biggest problem ever.

You seriously look at what I post on this forum, and conclude that I think this is the biggest problem ever? Do you read what I post rather regularly about Trump and modern right?

[Solmyr]

But right now, it results in them losing elections (not just the Presidency, there are lots of OTHER elections in this country, and the fucking oh so brilliant elite woke left loses most of them) to a populist party of douchebags dominated by faux religious dumbasses and truly radicalized anti-intellectual bigots.

You mean like the 2018 elections, where AOC and her ilk have achieved extreme popularity and the left won handily?

I'm just not seeing this "woke silliness" as being damaging to the left like you claim. Sure, right wing craziness is on the rise, but that's not the result of left wokeness.