Epstein booked for trafficking underaged girls

[The Brain]

I thought he was in MMA?

[The Minsky Moment]

But always got out on technicalities?

Presumption of innocence.  Like Trump.

[PDH]

But always got out on technicalities?

Presumption of innocence.  Like Trump.

They can't lock up a legal mind like Minsky has.  The rest of the body? Sure.

[The Minsky Moment]

Never did M&A.  Capital markets (securities offerings) for about 3-4 years; commercial litigation since then.  As part of the latter I did some pro bono criminal defense.

[Malthus]

Officers almost never get in trouble for straight up killing unarmed people on the street. Due to this their risk assessment is skewed.

This is a fundamentally different situation though. A prison guard could be reasonably sure that the suspicious death of a very high profile prisoner who is making front page news would catch all sorts of heat.

A cop shooting an unarmed relative nobody could look to many recent examples and reasonably conclude his chances of getting away with it with a slap on the wrist were pretty good.

[KRonn]

Yeah but incompetence is the simplest explanation.

Indeed.

The discussion above is part of the reason - if it wasn't incompetence, the guards would have to have had a really strong motive (like a big pay out). Which ought to be reasonably easy for investigators to discover, even if steps are taken to disguise it.

In short - if it wasn't incompetence, we can expect some evidence of malice to surface.

This is what I'm thinking, and that the medical examiner made the announcement of suicide too fast, before other investigations were done. Broken neck bones usually caused by strangulation but more rarely could occur from hanging. Lots of coincidences that added up for this to happen - cameras not working, guards asleep and/or not regular guards. But while suspicious I tend to feel there are too many people to pay off and to keep quiet, then too many pieces to put in place in order for this to have been staged.

[Berkut]

Yeah but incompetence is the simplest explanation.

Indeed.

The discussion above is part of the reason - if it wasn't incompetence, the guards would have to have had a really strong motive (like a big pay out). Which ought to be reasonably easy for investigators to discover, even if steps are taken to disguise it.

In short - if it wasn't incompetence, we can expect some evidence of malice to surface.

This is what I'm thinking, and that the medical examiner made the announcement of suicide too fast, before other investigations were done. Broken neck bones usually caused by strangulation but more rarely could occur from hanging. Lots of coincidences that added up for this to happen - cameras not working, guards asleep and/or not regular guards. But while suspicious I tend to feel there are too many people to pay off and to keep quiet, then too many pieces to put in place in order for this to have been staged.

How fast was the ME "announcement" compared to other apparent suicide autopsies? I mean, if you *know* it was "too fast" then of course you must know how much slower this typically takes. Can you share that information with us?

Also, you say "broken neck bones 'usually caused by strangulation'". Interesting that you know that, but the ME apparently did not. Seems like something they would know.

And this happens with hanging as well, by "more rarely".

How much more rarely, in the case of an older victim? Clearly you know, since you are sure this is obvious evidence that the ME apparently ignored in their "too fast" announcement.

[viper37]

Broken neck bones usually caused by strangulation but more rarely could occur from hanging.

if the guy was 20, you'd be absolutely right.  But broken neck bones in case of suicides tend to happen more frequently as the victim ages.  While I haven't checked his age, he does seem older than 20-something.
As for the timing, it's not that it takes a while to do an autopsy and publish a report, it's that usually, such cases aren't exactly top priority to get a ME do it on sunday morning.  On overtime, maybe.  A John Doe might have been handled by an assistant ME, than revised by a ME, who would then take some time to finalize the report.

Here, we have a high profile case, and I doubt it was an assistant who did the primary work, or even that interns were watching the process to learn alongside the practinioner.  This tends to expedite things.

[KRonn]

Yeah but incompetence is the simplest explanation.

Indeed.

The discussion above is part of the reason - if it wasn't incompetence, the guards would have to have had a really strong motive (like a big pay out). Which ought to be reasonably easy for investigators to discover, even if steps are taken to disguise it.

In short - if it wasn't incompetence, we can expect some evidence of malice to surface.

This is what I'm thinking, and that the medical examiner made the announcement of suicide too fast, before other investigations were done. Broken neck bones usually caused by strangulation but more rarely could occur from hanging. Lots of coincidences that added up for this to happen - cameras not working, guards asleep and/or not regular guards. But while suspicious I tend to feel there are too many people to pay off and to keep quiet, then too many pieces to put in place in order for this to have been staged.

How fast was the ME "announcement" compared to other apparent suicide autopsies? I mean, if you *know* it was "too fast" then of course you must know how much slower this typically takes. Can you share that information with us?

Also, you say "broken neck bones 'usually caused by strangulation'". Interesting that you know that, but the ME apparently did not. Seems like something they would know.

And this happens with hanging as well, by "more rarely".

How much more rarely, in the case of an older victim? Clearly you know, since you are sure this is obvious evidence that the ME apparently ignored in their "too fast" announcement.

Heh, I'm just going by what medical experts and doctors have said but you're right since most of them are giving views on TV and haven't done the actual examinations nor spoken with the examiners. Then too, I think it's rational to have some suspicions given Epstein was such a high visibility prisoner and there was so much failure leading to his death. As I did say though above, suspicions aside, the failure is much more likely due to incompetence and not a rather large conspiracy involving a number of people.