The shit in Spain falls mainly in the fan

[Iormlund]

So what?

Catalonian politicians can declare independence. That doesn't make it so.

Businesses aren't suddenly going to line up to send them money (VAT, SS contributions and income tax from workers, business tax, excise taxes). Not in a week, not in a year.

When you have 40-50% of the population voting for parties willing to run roughshod through constitutional and democratic principles in order to achieve MUH FREEDOM, you can bet that unilateral independence is going to have an effect. Sure, long term or even mid term, unilateral independence is not viable, but you can bet that lots of damage can be done in the interim. And I don't mean just metaphorical damage.

Very true. And yeah, I know there's a big separatist segment. Hell, all my gf's coworkers will vote for independence. One wonders if they realize that their employer has offices all over Spain their jobs could be relocated to if shit hits the fan (most likely Madrid or Seville).

[celedhring]

Arrest them for treason?

It's not a crime to call for a referendum, illegal or otherwise. To use public funds to pay for it though ...

Declaring independence might be a crime though? It would be a crime here as soon as there was any force behind it.

Calling and holding an independence vote is not a crime in itself, rather the necessary steps you have to take in order to call it (i.e. be in contempt of the Constitutional Court).

[celedhring]

So what?

Catalonian politicians can declare independence. That doesn't make it so.

Businesses aren't suddenly going to line up to send them money (VAT, SS contributions and income tax from workers, business tax, excise taxes). Not in a week, not in a year.

When you have 40-50% of the population voting for parties willing to run roughshod through constitutional and democratic principles in order to achieve MUH FREEDOM, you can bet that unilateral independence is going to have an effect. Sure, long term or even mid term, unilateral independence is not viable, but you can bet that lots of damage can be done in the interim. And I don't mean just metaphorical damage.

Very true. And yeah, I know there's a big separatist segment. Hell, all my gf's coworkers will vote for independence. One wonders if they realize that their employer has offices all over Spain their jobs could be relocated to if shit hits the fan (most likely Madrid or Seville).

Yeah, the naivete of not facing the consequences of their vote is very brexitesque. But it will make them feel good and stick it to The Man in Madrid!

[Valmy]

What the hell is wrong with people?

[Barrister]

Why would the holding of a referendum be illegal?  That sounds like part of the problem right there.

[garbon]

What the hell is wrong with people?

London independence!

[Valmy]

Why would the holding of a referendum be illegal?

No reason. That is why it isn't.  It has been stated over and over again that there is nothing illegal besides maybe an abuse of funds.

[celedhring]

It's illegal, just not a "crime".

The Spanish Constitution doesn't recognize the right of self-determination of any single constituent unit.

[Valmy]

It's illegal, just not a crime.

The Spanish Constitution doesn't recognize the right of self-determination of any constituent unit.

The declaring of independence is illegal. Having the referendum isn't...isn't that right?

[celedhring]

It's illegal, just not a crime.

The Spanish Constitution doesn't recognize the right of self-determination of any constituent unit.

The declaring of independence is illegal. Having the referendum isn't...isn't that right?

Let's see:

a) A private actor can hold one, and there's been plenty at a local level. Just don't expect them to be binding...
b) The regional government can't. They can only hold referenda on stuff they have devolved powers in. "Should we divide this or that county", "should we segregate this town". (to cite some examples of actual referenda). Since they don't have the power to declare independence, the referendum is henceforth not allowed. But there's no "4 years and 10 lashings for holding an independence vote" in our criminal code. If they pursue a referendum they aren't allowed to call, they will find themselves in contempt of court, prevarication, misuse of public funds... etc... That's what happened with the one they celebrated 2 years ago.
c) It's a bit unclear if the central government could hold an independence referendum. It hasn't been constitutionally tested and the central government isn't particularly interested in testing it. It's pretty clear that it could only be held in the whole of Spain, though.
d) For anything else, you have to reform the Constitution.

[DGuller]

Come on, Spain, you already played that part, let Syria have it this time.

[Admiral Yi]

Mah Spanish ETF. 

[Drakken]

The Spanish Constitution doesn't recognize the right of self-determination of any single constituent unit.

This is funny beyond belief: No Constitution recognizes a right to self-determination. Doesn't make secession any less of a reality if a majority of a population in a given constituent unit wants it.

[Valmy]

Well it would certainly make it more of a reality if it did.

[Monoriu]

I still ask the same question: if independence happens, Barcelona football club will play who in the league competition?