When is political violence justified?

[Razgovory]

Recently I've been thinking of John Brown and his violent but quixotic struggle to end slavery.  Was he right to do it?  I used to believe that violence is not the answer, it only begets more violence (which in this case was true), but he was also responding to violence.  Slavery is violence.  It's robbing someone every day of their life and not infrequently also involves assault, rape and even murder. So I've become undecided on the subject. 

I think of it a bit by analogy: if you are walking down the street and see three men beating to death a fourth man, what do you do?  Do you intervene or do you turn your head and walk away?  Does the morality of your decision  change if you are likely to be beaten up by the toughs due to intervention?  What if you are carrying a gun and your intervention may very likely result in one of the men being killed?

I am unsure.

[Admiral Yi]

Police powers are also violence.  If you say violence is justified when it is in response to violence, you've justified pretty much all political violence.

[Grinning_Colossus]

Political violence is justified when there is no democratic mechanism through which to effect change (including when that mechanism is so dysfunctional or compromised as to no longer represent a real alternative), or when the authorities are doing something grossly violative of human rights and urgent action is needed to stop it.

John Brown was entirely justified because he didn't live in a democracy and therefore couldn't effect change democratically. A successful servile war would have produced immense improvements in the South, and it was the duty of every human being to support it.

[MadImmortalMan]

All politics is violence.

So I guess politics is never justified. 

[Valmy]

From an enlightenment perspective I guess it would be justified when the rights of people are being abused. But violence is a very dangerous genie to be let out of the bottle. There is probably some kind of Augustinian calculus that would have to be a factor there. It is hard to get too upset by things like what happened to Ceausescu in Romania because there was so little instability and death of innocent people that followed. But I guess then you start thinking about the uprising against Bashar Al-Assad. Was that a moral act? I don't know.

All politics is violence.

Sure violence is a pretty usual aspect of politics but then it is a pretty usual aspect of most human interaction.

[Monoriu]

Political violence is never justified. 

[Valmy]

Political violence is never justified. 

So...are you saying the Qing Dynasty should still be running China?

[The Brain]

Political violence is never justified. 

So...are you saying the Qing Dynasty should still be running China?

How would they...?

[Valmy]

Political violence is never justified. 

So...are you saying the Qing Dynasty should still be running China?

How would they...?

I am sure Puyi could have kept the Dynasty going.

[Oexmelin]

Political violence is never justified.

How else do you overthrow people who take pride in their utter lack of morals?

[Monoriu]

Political violence is never justified.

How else do you overthrow people who take pride in their utter lack of morals?

You don't.  You run away

[Valmy]

So when you said 'political violence is never justified' did you mean for everybody or just yourself?

[jimmy olsen]

Recently I've been thinking of John Brown and his violent but quixotic struggle to end slavery.  Was he right to do it?  I used to believe that violence is not the answer, it only begets more violence (which in this case was true), but he was also responding to violence.  Slavery is violence.  It's robbing someone every day of their life and not infrequently also involves assault, rape and even murder. So I've become undecided on the subject. 

We know what Languish believes on this subject.

46.7% believe he was right.
48.9% are a puppet of the Slave Power
4.4% a gutless and indecessive

[Oexmelin]

So when you said 'political violence is never justified' did you mean for everybody or just yourself?

It's Mono. His entire political philosophy is based on his own personal sense of comfort.

[Razgovory]

Yeah, I know we've had this discussion before.