What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[Sheilbh]

With the difference that in the beer hall putsch Hitler himself participated instead of hiding, and he was not in public office, let alone government leader.

Yes. Although I think Trump, in his speech, said he would be joining his supporters in marching to Congress. Of course he actually got into his car and was driven back to the White House.

56% believe in significant fraud? That's a death spell for democracy...

I think it's 56% of voters who believe in significant fraud approve of yesterday's actions?

What the...

I know the US mirrored itself on the Roman Republic, but you didn't need to go as far back as cosplaying the sack of the Capitoline Hill by the German tribes.

This is part of the reason I found the American unreality argument so interesting is it feels that lots of Americans in their politics are basically cosplaying. You've got these guys, you've got Rod Dreher and conservative Christians quoting Solzhenitsyn and saying they need to withdraw from society in order to live in the truth - but accept that they will be persecuted like the early Christians or in the Eastern Bloc, or even some of the movements opposing Trump on the left (especially the exhausting Dumbledore's Army/Harry Potter references as Brain mentions).

It's all very post-modern - it's cosplay, it's pastiche, it's stitching all these multiple cultural and historical references for an individual's meaning.

[Zanza]

How it started, how it ended.

Tbf, I think the top image is not from Trump's inauguration?

No idea, but the general message fits.

[garbon]

56% believe in significant fraud? That's a death spell for democracy...

I think it's 56% of voters who believe in significant fraud approve of yesterday's actions?

Yep.

[The Brain]

Let's describe how it ended when it actually has ended. Trump is still President of the United States.

[Duque de Bragança]

With the difference that in the beer hall putsch Hitler himself participated instead of hiding, and he was not in public office, let alone government leader.

Yes. Although I think Trump, in his speech, said he would be joining his supporters in marching to Congress. Of course he actually got into his car and was driven back to the White House.

So Trump is worse than Hitler.

I know the US mirrored itself on the Roman Republic, but you didn't need to go as far back as cosplaying the sack of the Capitoline Hill by the German tribes.

I guess they did not get the part about the Capitole being saved by the sacred geese of Juno, and that it was Gauls (Celtic tribes if you prefer), not Germans.
Væ Victis, however!

It's all very post-modern - it's cosplay, it's pastiche, it's stitch
ing all these multiple cultural and historical references for an individual's meaning.

Definitively. The trumpist right has culturally appropriated post-modernism, as with identity politics.

[Sheilbh]

56% believe in significant fraud? That's a death spell for democracy...

I think it's 56% of voters who believe in significant fraud approve of yesterday's actions?

Yep.

Having said that I still think there's a lot of cause for concern around the health of democracy in the US, particularly because loser's consent is kind of a key part of a functioning democracy.

[Syt]

Stephen Colbert (he's pretty angry in yesterday's show, understandably), talking to Amy Klobuchar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PiA9mJommE&ab_channel=TheLateShowwithStephenColbert

He asks her about consequences, and she says there will be, for the rioters. He puts her on the spot, saying the rioters didn't know better - what about the people in congress, senators and representatives who egged them on and fed into their anger. She's much more reluctant to speak on that (which I can kinda understand, because she has to work with those people, but that never held Republicans back in the past however many years).

[The Brain]

So, is there a Camillus in the US?

[Zanza]

56% believe in significant fraud? That's a death spell for democracy...

I think it's 56% of voters who believe in significant fraud approve of yesterday's actions?

Yep.

Ok, that makes it a bit better.

[Sheilbh]

Really good piece by the ITV reporter:
https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1346952339886923786?s=20

[Duque de Bragança]

So, is there a Camillus in the US?

Dictator, Roman republic style? Possibly.

[Syt]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/remove-trump-incitement-sedition-25th-amendment/2021/01/06/b22c6ad4-506d-11eb-b96e-0e54447b23a1_story.html

Trump caused the assault on the Capitol. He must be removed.

Opinion by Editorial Board
Jan. 7, 2021 at 1:31 a.m. GMT+1

PRESIDENT TRUMP'S refusal to accept his election defeat and his relentless incitement of his supporters led Wednesday to the unthinkable: an assault on the U.S. Capitol by a violent mob that overwhelmed police and drove Congress from its chambers as it was debating the counting of electoral votes. Responsibility for this act of sedition lies squarely with the president, who has shown that his continued tenure in office poses a grave threat to U.S. democracy. He should be removed.

Mr. Trump encouraged the mob to gather on Wednesday, as Congress was set to convene, and to "be wild." After repeating a panoply of absurd conspiracy theories about the election, he urged the crowd to march on the Capitol. "We're going to walk down, and I'll be there with you," he said. "You'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong." The president did not follow the mob, but instead passively watched it on television as its members tore down fences around the Capitol and overwhelmed police guarding the building. House members and senators were forced to flee. Shots were fired, and at least one person was struck and killed.

Rather than immediately denouncing the violence and calling on his supporters to stand down, Mr. Trump issued two mild tweets in which he called on them to "remain" or "stay" peaceful. Following appeals from senior Republicans, he finally released a video in which he asked people to go home, but doubled down on the lies fueling the vigilantes. "We love you. You're very special," he told his seditious posse. Later, he excused the riot, tweeting that "these are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away."

The president is unfit to remain in office for the next 14 days. Every second he retains the vast powers of the presidency is a threat to public order and national security. Vice President Pence, who had to be whisked off the Senate floor for his own protection, should immediately gather the Cabinet to invoke the 25th Amendment, declaring that Mr. Trump is "unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office." Congress, which would be required to ratify the action if Mr. Trump resisted, should do so. Mr. Pence should serve until President-elect Joe Biden is inaugurated on Jan. 20.

Failing that, senior Republicans must restrain the president. The insurrection came just as many top Republicans, including Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (Ky.), were finally denouncing Mr. Trump's antidemocratic campaign to overturn the election results. A depressing number of GOP legislators — such as Sen. Josh Hawley (Mo.), Sen. Ted Cruz (Tex.), House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (Calif.) and House Minority Whip Steve Scalise (La.) — were prepared to support Mr. Trump's effort, fueling the rage of those the president has duped into believing the election was stolen.

Mr. McConnell, to his lasting credit, was not. "President Trump claims the election was stolen," he said. But "nothing before us proves illegality anywhere near the massive scale, the massive scale, that would have tipped the entire election. . . . If this election were overturned by mere allegations from the losing side, our democracy would enter a death spiral." He added: "I will not pretend such a vote would be a harmless protest gesture while relying on others to do the right thing." As if to prove his point, the Trump mob would soon climb up the Capitol walls, and Mr. McConnell and his colleagues would seek refuge in secured locations.

Now that the stakes are viscerally clear, Mr. McConnell and every other Republican, almost all of whom bear some blame for what occurred on Wednesday, have an overriding responsibility to the nation: stopping Mr. Trump and restoring faith in democracy. That began Wednesday night with the resumption of the congressional session and the continuance of the electoral vote count. Some of the lawmakers who sought to benefit from Mr. Trump's mob-stoking rage suspended their cynical posturing — though they will always bear the stigma of having contributed to the day's shameful events.

The chaos confirmed once again the voters' wisdom in rejecting Mr. Trump in favor of Joe Biden. The president-elect rose to the moment. "I call on this mob, now, to pull back and allow the work of democracy to go forward," Mr. Biden said. "It's not protest. It's insurrection." He concluded: "Today is a reminder, a painful one, that democracy is fragile."

Mr. Biden is right. Rules, norms, laws, even the Constitution itself are worth something only if people believe in them. Americans put on their seat belts, follow traffic laws, pay taxes and vote because of faith in a system — and that faith makes it work. The highest voice in the land incited people to break that faith, not just in tweets, but by inciting them to action. Mr. Trump is a menace, and as long as he remains in the White House, the country will be in danger.

[Maladict]

Being generous - let an irate crowd leave the building they've occupied safe in the knowledge you've got CCTV and copious footage to arrest them? Is your goal to get the situation (and Congress) back under your control reasonably calmly - not least because Congress needs to meet to fulfil its constitutional role - or to try and arrest everyone on the site by effectively kettling them in Congress (because you couldn't even kettle them off-site without people realising due to social media/phones)?

I can see there being a reasonable police reason  not to arrest them on the spot - but, of course, I query if that would be extended to everyone. On the other hand I can definitely see a good reason to say that getting Congress back sitting and accepting the EC votes is probably the number 1 priority.

I don't think that many made it inside, dozens maybe but not hundreds. They should all have been detained, given how serious their actions were. Congress can wait a few more hours.

[Josephus]

So all the goons who invaded the capitol building, they arrest like 14, most on misdemeanor charges. 14. The rest get ushered out like visitors to a museum at closing time. "Please stop at the gift shop on your way out. Have a nice day and hope to see you soon."

I think the travesty is that they, as well as Trump and his enablers will get away with this.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Part of the issue of course is other large anti-Trump demonstrations in Washington, the Federal law enforcement apparatus took as a "threat" and pre-deployed significant security before hand. That did not occur here, and the blame for that lies ultimately with Trump but also his underlings at DHS and DoJ. Now that being said, after its merger with the Library of Congress police force, the U.S. Capitol Police have over 2,000 sworn officers. They report up through a chief and are overseen by the Sergeant-at-Arms and the leaders of each house of congress. While it's possible if fully deployed they would not have been enough, I have my doubts. Instead I saw what I can only describe as a de minimis deployment of the Capitol Police, who chose to not aggressively or meaningful attempt to stop people entering the Capitol building, and appeared to only use real force as the crowd approached the House and Senate chambers--and even then only temporarily, once the congress people were ushered to safety the thugs were allowed to roam around the House chamber like the allies plundering the Eagle's Nest.

While the lack of Federal law enforcement planning and assistance is shameful, the Capitol Police truly and genuinely have the resources to have done much, much better. It needs to be investigated to find out why this did not occur and people need to be fired. I should note that even without Trump's assistance, the Capitol Police could have worked significantly with organizations like the Park Police (which would already have had staffing in the area), and the Metropolitan police (which are mostly independent of Trump), instead it appears the Capitol police made no significant overtures to those agencies for pre-demonstration help and the Metropolitan police were basically limited to enforcing Mayor Bowser's 6pm curfew order.