What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[Sheilbh]

Yeah. I think he can sniff out "guard-rails" by now.

What does this mean?  A variation on "the opposition?"

I don't know what the "opposition" is. I though it was just some self-important bellend with an publishing contract to be honest.

The guard-rails were the adults in the room around Trump (Mattis, Tillinger, Kelly, at one point Priebus). They were there because Trump wanted them, but they were normally heavily recommended by GOP establishment and were reassuring figures for them. As we've since learned they often disagreed with Trump and would slow-pedal the stuff they disagreed with.

I think from Trump's perspective his biggest mistake was appointing Sessions and he was never going to appoint an AG who might not be advancing Trump's agenda, but instead their own (such as following the rules, pursuing what they view as American interests). And that's a perfectly fine thing for a President to want from his team. It's just Trump is an unusual President with an odd agenda.

[Admiral Yi]

I don't know what the "opposition" is. I though it was just some self-important bellend with an publishing contract to be honest.

The guard-rails were the adults in the room around Trump (Mattis, Tillinger, Kelly, at one point Priebus). They were there because Trump wanted them, but they were normally heavily recommended by GOP establishment and were reassuring figures for them. As we've since learned they often disagreed with Trump and would slow-pedal the stuff they disagreed with.

More or less the same thing, with a little more emphasis on talking to similar members of the administration about how fucking insane Trump is and what can be done.

[Admiral Yi]

I'm surprised you haven't read that op-ed (NYT? Post?) by Anonymous titled "We Are The Opposition."

[Razgovory]

But we're living in a world where, for the GOP and their hardcore supporters, staying in power and sticking it to the Dems is more important than... well, anything else, really.

We're in an era of propaganda over truth for a large part of the population, which once again invites comparisons to the 1930s.

I don't think it's propaganda. I think it's cynicism and doubt, which if you have it on everything ("why is this lying liar lying to me?") is deeply corrosive. Not least because if you're cynical and doubt everything you get to feel smarter than everyone else.

There was a fake news scandal just today in our election. Long story short: boy was in a hospital and was sleeping on the floor because they were out of beds. It was blowing up as a story and causing issues for Johnson. Then there's a screenshot of stories from nurses saying it was set up by the paper. Cue a day of commentary on that before the original journalists, the hospital and the family confirm it was a real photo.

One of the leading (conservative-backing) journalists who had pushed the "fake story" angle, then responds by basically saying it may have been a true story, but nurses questioned aspects of the photo - so there were questions to answer and it should be discussed.

It's not propaganda - I sort of feel like it might be worse.

I don't think these are mutually exclusive.  One of the effects of constant propaganda is that it exhausts people.  They just give up and become cynics.

[Sheilbh]

I'm surprised you haven't read that op-ed (NYT? Post?) by Anonymous titled "We Are The Opposition."

As I say think I just think it's self-important posing. Though I'm sure in his head he's a terribly impressive guardian of the American Republic 

I think the difference is the adults in the room were the people the GOP hoped would restrain Trump - and to an extent they did. For example Mattis stopped Trump's initial Syrian withdrawal, Tillerson and Kelly were (reportedly) sending allies different messages to Trump. The "opposition" are, you know, staff members I imagine most of the GOP leadership barely know exist.

But ultimately Trump realised that they weren't supporting him, they all left in one way or another. And I don't think there's anyone left who would restrain Trump or who the GOP can look to, to make things more normal - maybe Ivanka and Kushner? But also I think Trump links them with his "betrayal" by Sessions.

[Admiral Yi]

As I say think I just think it's self-important posing. Though I'm sure in his head he's a terribly impressive guardian of the American Republic 

I think the difference is the adults in the room were the people the GOP hoped would restrain Trump - and to an extent they did. For example Mattis stopped Trump's initial Syrian withdrawal, Tillerson and Kelly were (reportedly) sending allies different messages to Trump. The "opposition" are, you know, staff members I imagine most of the GOP leadership barely know exist.

But ultimately Trump realised that they weren't supporting him, they all left in one way or another. And I don't think there's anyone left who would restrain Trump or who the GOP can look to, to make things more normal - maybe Ivanka and Kushner? But also I think Trump links them with his "betrayal" by Sessions.

We have, arguably, just witnessed a couple weeks of "self-important posing" by witnesses at the impeachment hearings.  Not to mention that of the FBI director in defense of the IG report.

[Sheilbh]

Maybe, but I respect it more if you put your name to it.

They're not popping on their Batman pajamas to write an anonymous op-ed and book

[Admiral Yi]

Maybe, but I respect it more if you put your name to it.

They're not popping on their Batman pajamas to write an anonymous op-ed and book

The same anonymous wrote a book?  I think you're confusing the op-ed with the fly on the wall book written by that Hollywood reporter.

[Sheilbh]

Maybe, but I respect it more if you put your name to it.

They're not popping on their Batman pajamas to write an anonymous op-ed and book

The same anonymous wrote a book?  I think you're confusing the op-ed with the fly on the wall book written by that Hollywood reporter.

Yep:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/18/a-warning-review-anonymous-trump-book

[Admiral Yi]

Well alrighty then.  The opposition sucks and guard rails rock.

[Admiral Yi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRKFo0JmuBc

Very long interview with Barr (not on Fox) about IG report and Durham's investigation.

As much as I hate to say it, he sounds very reasonable.

Some evasive non-answers when he is asked about DNC servers spirited to Ukraine and Ukrainian interference in the election.

[katmai]

[frunk]

No, it's tribalism.

The GOP supporters know full well the excuses for the many Trump idiocies/crimes are total BS. They just don't care.

The tribalism has been reinforced and created through decades of propaganda.

[frunk]

I don't think it's propaganda. I think it's cynicism and doubt, which if you have it on everything ("why is this lying liar lying to me?") is deeply corrosive. Not least because if you're cynical and doubt everything you get to feel smarter than everyone else.

Cynicism is part of the propaganda.  "All sides are just as bad" allows the side that is actually worse much freer reign.

[DGuller]

I don't think it's propaganda. I think it's cynicism and doubt, which if you have it on everything ("why is this lying liar lying to me?") is deeply corrosive. Not least because if you're cynical and doubt everything you get to feel smarter than everyone else.

Cynicism is part of the propaganda.  "All sides are just as bad" allows the side that is actually worse much freer reign.

I think it's both.  Cynicism is an easy cheat to feel smart without doing any of the work, so a lot of people don't even need any propaganda to get them in that mode of thinking.  However, given how naturally attractive being a cynic is, it also makes for an easy and effective goal of the propaganda campaign.