Green Energy Revolution Megathread

[Berkut]

I don't get that from him at all - I don't think he is arguing whether or not renewable is the right answer, he is simply pointing out that it isn't the answer being actually chosen, no matter what the propaganda says otherwise.

China can build lots and lots of solar plants...but the fact that it is all really a drop in the bucket of the climate problem because they are building a hell of a lot more coal plants means that it really doesn't mean anything that they are going from nearly no renewable energy to a miniscule amount of renewable energy while at the same time doubling down on burning more and more coal.

[The Minsky Moment]

PRC is a pretty good place for solar - contrary to Mono there is a lot of land area, and the populated areas in the north have a dry climate that is good for solar PV.

No one is questioning that China burns lots of coal and will continue to do so, but the trend directionally favors renewables.  The Party is smart enough to get that AQ issues are not good for business, e.g. pulling talent and business from HK to Singapore.

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

You live in this part of the world with high population densities and limited space.

He lives in Korea.  Half the population lives in the Seoul metro area.  The majority of the rest live in a handful of other metro areas.  There are stupid amounts of empty land between those metro areas on the Korean peninsula.

[Valmy]

Think about it this way.  The coal-based electricity generation capacity in China is the largest in the world.  Probably several times the coal-based electricity generation capacity in the US.  That means, what China does will probably make or break the effort to stop global warming.  Who calls the shots on this?  The politburo of the Communist Party of China.  I think you will find that their concerns and calculations are somewhat different from yours

Not after we demonstrate the power of this station.

Fear will keep the local party officials in line. Fear of our cheap energy prices.

[Richard Hakluyt]

The statistic that is never given is the smallest percentage of a country's (or network's) energy produced by renewables in a given time period. Yet in many ways it is a more important figure than the maximum, getting the maximum and minimum closer together is probably the main challenge right now.

[Valmy]

The statistic that is never given is the smallest percentage of a country's (or network's) energy produced by renewables in a given time period. Yet in many ways it is a more important figure than the maximum, getting the maximum and minimum closer together is probably the main challenge right now.

Indeed. That is why the energy storage technology is so key.

[The Brain]

How do you store energy? That's like bottling a dream.

[jimmy olsen]

How do you store energy? That's like bottling a dream.

Batteries.

Mono, that article is more than two years old. Prices have gone down considerably since then and the technology has gotten more efficient.

You portray a dogmatic faith in market forces most of the time, but if it favors some kind of change in society you switch gear immediately.

[jimmy olsen]

But I thought that Asia wasn't going green?

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/energy/power/ministry-plans-phase-ii-of-solar-parks-doubles-target-to-40000-mw/articleshow/52646107.cms

Ministry plans phase II of solar parks, doubles target to 40,000 MW

By Kaavya Chandrasekaran,

NEW DELHI: The Ministry of New and Renewable Energy (MNRE) is planning a second phase of setting up solar parks across the country, twice as ambitious as the first. Unlike the previous one, the new round will set aside a portion where the solar power producer will also have to set up facility to store the energy in batteries.

In the first phase, formulated in 2014-15, vacant land capable of hosting solar panels to produce 20,000 MW had to be earmarked and acquired, and the necessary infrastructure, such as transmission lines, put in place for developers to set up solar projects. By the end March this year, 33 such areas in 21 states that could house 19,900 MW of projects had been identified — it takes about 5-6 acres to build 1 MW of installed capacity. While infrastructure at these places are at various stages of completion, some of the parks are ready to be handed over to project developers. Auctions have been held to allot some of these.

In Phase-II, the ministry wants to identify land capable of accommodating 40,000 MW in about 25 states. "This will include storage of about 200-300 MW," said MNRE Secretary Upendra Tripathy.

Until now, solar developers didn't bother about storage, promptly transferring the power they generated to the grid. Storage is necessary to ensure continuous solar power supply — since power generation can vary widely depending on the sun's intensity — but it is also expensive, almost doubling capital costs. A few pilot projects that consist of storage are in the pipeline, including 100 MW of storage at a solar park in Andhra Pradesh.

In the first phase, the MNRE provided financial support through viability gap funding (VGF) of Rs 20 lakh per MW, or 30% of the cost of developing the park, whichever was lower. This may be increased in the second phase if storage is included. "We expect storage to require a higher VGF," said Tripathy. "We are also thinking of thinking of launching a National Storage Mission."

Each park under Phase-I has a solar power park developer (SPPD) — usually, a venturebetween the Solar Corporation of India and the nodal agency for renewable energy in the state where the project is coming up. In Rajasthan and Maharashtra, private entities have also been roped in. "In the second phase, we will be strengthening the role of the state nodal agencies," said Tripathy. "They will have the option to run the solar projects themselves and benefit from the income."

Global developers prefer setting up their projects in solar parks because they don't have to worry about acquiring land, which the government takes care of. "There have been requests from foreign companies, as well as from states which have available land, to set up more solar parks," said an analyst. "Also, the solar rooftop programme is proceeding very slowly. The government is likely to achieve only around 20,000 MW by 2022 (from rooftop installations), against the target of 40,000 MW. effort is to make up the shortfall by having more ground projects at solar parks."

Currently, India has rooftop installations to produce only around 300 MW.

[Brazen]

How do you store energy? That's like bottling a dream.

Batteries.

Or pump water up a cliff during low usage time and use hydropower during high usage times.

[Brazen]

Haven't been closely following this thread so apologies if it's a repeat, but last month solar power eclipsed (see what I did there?) coal power in the UK for the first time:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/07/solar-sets-british-record-for-may-producing-more-electricity-than-coal

[dps]

I think there are many reasons why governments choose coal over renewables.  The price of the solar panels is but one factor.  Other barriers still exist, for example the lack of space.  You live in this part of the world with high population densities and limited space.  You should know how difficult it is to build a solar farm near Seoul for example.   

There are things sometimes called power lines that transmit electricity from where it's generated to where it's used.  You are aware of their existence, aren't you?  You don't have to have a power plant next door in order to have electricity in your building.

[Brazen]

I think there are many reasons why governments choose coal over renewables.  The price of the solar panels is but one factor.  Other barriers still exist, for example the lack of space.  You live in this part of the world with high population densities and limited space.  You should know how difficult it is to build a solar farm near Seoul for example.   

There are things sometimes called power lines that transmit electricity from where it's generated to where it's used.  You are aware of their existence, aren't you?  You don't have to have a power plant next door in order to have electricity in your building.

Danish power company Energinet is connecting its energy grid to the UK's via a 740 km subsea cable, for example, specifically to make more use of green energy.

[Monoriu]

India?  Have you heard of India's coal rush?  Modi plans to double coal extraction by 2020. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lJNIBXMz0A

I have no doubt that India is building solar and wind plants.  But unlike, say, Europe, they aren't replacing the coal plants with these new energy sources.  They are doing both.  India doubling its coal production and consumption is more than enough to offset the planned changes brought about by whatever solar and wind plants they plan to build. 

[Richard Hakluyt]

BP's Statistical Review of World Energy is an excellent source when discussing energy and global warming matters :

http://www.bp.com/en/global/corporate/energy-economics/statistical-review-of-world-energy.html

We were discussing Germany's gas consumption for example, it was 77.6MTOE in 2005 and had fallen to 67.2MTOE in 2015. I find that much more informative than newspaper articles about how; on a particularly windy, warm and sunny day in June; renewable energy met all demand.