Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Sheilbh]

I think it might even be the same thing. In both cases it justifies the fact that poverty exists as a failure of hard-work and grit and pulling up by your shoelaces etc. My Italian/Irish ancestors who came with nothing worked hard, did the right thing and now I'm middle class so anyone can do it and people who haven't have failed individually; I am not resting on unearned advantages because my grandfather was a miner who worked hard, did the right thing etc and I still have those values.

I also think it's why the language of privilege doesn't land, even when people reject that phrase but agree with the concept when it is explained in simpler language. In part I think it's the academic thing around language but I also just think that privilege feels something different when you have a literal royal family in a society

The other thing when you mention privilege is I wonder how it interacts with empire and looking at post-imperial Britain. That the majority of British people identify with the mill workers, not the plantation owners. I almost wonder if the focus - which is understandable - on individual symbols or names who benefited vastly perhaps distracts. Because most people either aren't Cumberbatches or identify their family story as being working class. I wonder if it moves from the wider, more significant point that empire in all its different forms helped enrich British society as a whole and was a part of why Britain industrialised. On the other hand I'm not sure if that ends up being so diffuse that people also don't grasp it?

[Josquius]

The new class rules? It's not about the money
Middle earning no longer means middle class with identifying as working class not necessarily correlating to being poor

I'm finding fault straight away and am confused at what universe the writer lives in.
It's never been about money. It being about money is a rather new intrusion that factors into some people's reasoning, imported from the US.

My definition is its made of a mixture of wealth, postcode and nebulous culture, however its determined by the amount of time you spent reliant on a main wage earner rather than your current moment in time.
Ie 24 year old kid from a council estate whose dad is a plasterer and having gone to uni the kid now works for a top city firm. He's still working class as he had 21+ years living under a working class wage earner in a firmly working class situation (surrounded by sub working class people potentially).
If he gets to 50 and still insists he's working class whilst he drinks his wine on the French riviera however then that is suspect.

Plus, you know, self definition just don't take the piss too obviously.

Definitely true that class is britains main divide and get overlooked. The fascists are the only group recognising this publically (sure they mix it with white unjustly but thats them being them) and having great success with it.
Though I do think geography is up there with it. Very different situation being working class in an isolated shit town where the working class are the top of the pile with only a very small middle class and huge lumpen crowd vs being working class in a major city surrounded by opportunity.

[mongers]

I think it might even be the same thing. In both cases it justifies the fact that poverty exists as a failure of hard-work and grit and pulling up by your shoelaces etc. My Italian/Irish ancestors who came with nothing worked hard, did the right thing and now I'm middle class so anyone can do it and people who haven't have failed individually; I am not resting on unearned advantages because my grandfather was a miner who worked hard, did the right thing etc and I still have those values.

I also think it's why the language of privilege doesn't land, even when people reject that phrase but agree with the concept when it is explained in simpler language. In part I think it's the academic thing around language but I also just think that privilege feels something different when you have a literal royal family in a society

The other thing when you mention privilege is I wonder how it interacts with empire and looking at post-imperial Britain. That the majority of British people identify with the mill workers, not the plantation owners. I almost wonder if the focus - which is understandable - on individual symbols or names who benefited vastly perhaps distracts. Because most people either aren't Cumberbatches or identify their family story as being working class. I wonder if it moves from the wider, more significant point that empire in all its different forms helped enrich British society as a whole and was a part of why Britain industrialised. On the other hand I'm not sure if that ends up being so diffuse that people also don't grasp it?

Something you might enjoy  a podcast/radio programme about Richard Rogers, for those who don't know him an urban/e architect.

Details here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001g8fr

Richard Rogers, Catalyst
Archive on 4




Tom Dyckhoff looks back through the archive at the life and work of Richard Rogers, the architect who changed the face of modern Britain.

When Rogers died in December 2021, he was arguably the most accomplished architect on the planet, known for designing spectacular, hi-tech buildings - flamboyant experiments like the Pompidou Centre and Lloyds of London, their guts on the outside - and municipal centrepieces like the Millennium Dome and the Senedd in Cardiff. But he also challenged and refined our ideas about public space.

It wasn't just about buildings. Throughout his career, Rogers spoke of an ethical underpinning to his work – he talked of city spaces for people and of architecture at the heart of a vibrant civil society. This became most clearly articulated when he was Chair of New Labour's Urban Task Force, which advocated a 'cities-first' policy, putting the brakes on building in the suburbs in favour of focusing construction on the centre of towns and cities.

Since the late 1970s, when the Pompidou Centre and its attendant public square was completed, British cities have changed hugely. Strange and spectacular buildings now seem to be the norm, as are mixed use, post-industrial developments. Richard Rogers was a herald of what was to come. The skateboarders clattering around Central Square in Cardiff or the families around the sandpit on the South Bank in summer might not realise it, but, in a sense, they're living in Richard Rogers' world. In some ways we all are.

Featuring: Huw Clarke, Gillian Darley, Norman Foster, Alice MacGillivray, Douglas Murphy, Anne Power and Ruth Rogers.

Also it starts at 8pm tonight, so also available online soon after.

[mongers]

From the looks of it I won't be visiting any friends or family this Xmas or New Years:

Date   Service summary   Travel advice   Journey planner updated   Notes      
12-Dec   Normal Service   Normal service   Live now         
13-Dec   Strike Day - service summary  here   Only travel if absolutely necessary   Live now   0730 to 1830 only      
14-Dec   Strike Day - service summary  here   Only travel if absolutely necessary   Live now   0730 to 1830 only      
15-Dec   Late Startup service summary   Only travel if absolutely necessary   Live now   First trains depart  from around 0730      
16-Dec   Strike Day - service summary  here   Only travel if absolutely necessary   Live now   0730 to 1830 only      
17-Dec   Strike Day - service summary  here   Only travel if absolutely necessary   Live now   0730 to 1830 only      
18-Dec   Severley Reduced Servicelatest info  here   Only travel if absolutely necessary   Live now   0700 to 2200 only      
19-Dec   Industrial Action Reduced Service   Check  your whole journey  before you travel   Friday 16 December   0700 to 2200 only      
20-Dec   Industrial Action Reduced Service   Check  your whole journey  before you travel   Friday 16 December   0700 to 2200 only      
21-Dec   Industrial Action Reduced Service   Check  your whole journey  before you travel   Friday 16 December   0700 to 2200 only      
22-Dec   Industrial Action Reduced Service   Check  your whole journey  before you travel   Friday 16 December   0700 to 2200 only      
23-Dec   Industrial Action Reduced Service   Check  your whole journey  before you travel   Friday 16 December   0700 to 2200 only      
24-Dec   Industrial Action Reduced Service   Only travel if absolutely necessary     Tuesday 20 December   Early shutdown at 1500 with last trains departing as early as 1200      
25-Dec   Christmas Day   No service            
26-Dec   Boxing Day   No service            
27-Dec   Severley Reduced Servicelatest info  here   Only travel if absolutely necessary   Thursday 22 December   Late  s tart-up from 1200 with some first trains much later      
28-Dec   Industrial Action Reduced Service   Check your whole journey before you travel   Thursday 22 December   0700 to 2200 only      
29-Dec   Industrial Action Reduced Service   Check your whole journey before you travel   Thursday 22 December   0700 to 2200 only      
30-Dec   Industrial Action Reduced Service   Check your whole journey before you travel   Thursday 22 December   0700 to 2200 only      
31-Dec   Industrial Action Reduced Service   Check your whole journey before you travel   Friday 23 December   0700 to 2200 only      
01-Jan   Industrial Action Reduced Service   Check your whole journey before you travel   Friday 23 December   0700 to 2200 only      
02-Jan   Industrial Action Reduced Service   Check your whole journey before you travel   TBC   0700 to 2200 only RMT industrial action ends at 2359      
03-Jan   Strike Day - service summary TBC   Only travel if absolutely necessary   TBC   0730 to 1830 only      
04-Jan   Strike Day - service summary TBC   Only travel if absolutely necessary   TBC   0730 to 1830 only      
05-Jan   Late Startup service summary   Only travel if absolutely necessary   TBC   First trains depart at around 0730      
06-Jan   Strike Day - service summary TBC   Only travel if absolutely necessary   TBC   0730 to 1830 only      
07-Jan   Strike Day - service summary TBC   Only travel if absolutely necessary   TBC   0730 to 1830 only      
08-Jan   Late Startup service summary   Only travel if absolutely necessary   TBC   0730 to 1830 only      

:sad:
                  

[Duque de Bragança]

From the looks of it I won't be visiting any friends or family this Xmas or New Years:

Date   Service summary   Travel advice   Journey planner updated   Notes      
12-Dec   Normal Service   Normal service   Live now         
13-Dec   Strike Day - service summary  here   Only travel if absolutely necessary   Live now   0730 to 1830 only      
14-Dec   Strike Day - service summary  here   Only travel if absolutely necessary   Live now   0730 to 1830 only      
15-Dec   Late Startup service summary   Only travel if absolutely necessary   Live now   First trains depart  from around 0730      
16-Dec   Strike Day - service summary  here   Only travel if absolutely necessary   Live now   0730 to 1830 only      
17-Dec   Strike Day - service summary  here   Only travel if absolutely necessary   Live now   0730 to 1830 only      
18-Dec   Severley Reduced Servicelatest info  here   Only travel if absolutely necessary   Live now   0700 to 2200 only      
19-Dec   Industrial Action Reduced Service   Check  your whole journey  before you travel   Friday 16 December   0700 to 2200 only      
20-Dec   Industrial Action Reduced Service   Check  your whole journey  before you travel   Friday 16 December   0700 to 2200 only      
21-Dec   Industrial Action Reduced Service   Check  your whole journey  before you travel   Friday 16 December   0700 to 2200 only      
22-Dec   Industrial Action Reduced Service   Check  your whole journey  before you travel   Friday 16 December   0700 to 2200 only      
23-Dec   Industrial Action Reduced Service   Check  your whole journey  before you travel   Friday 16 December   0700 to 2200 only      
24-Dec   Industrial Action Reduced Service   Only travel if absolutely necessary     Tuesday 20 December   Early shutdown at 1500 with last trains departing as early as 1200      
25-Dec   Christmas Day   No service            
26-Dec   Boxing Day   No service            
27-Dec   Severley Reduced Servicelatest info  here   Only travel if absolutely necessary   Thursday 22 December   Late  s tart-up from 1200 with some first trains much later      
28-Dec   Industrial Action Reduced Service   Check your whole journey before you travel   Thursday 22 December   0700 to 2200 only      
29-Dec   Industrial Action Reduced Service   Check your whole journey before you travel   Thursday 22 December   0700 to 2200 only      
30-Dec   Industrial Action Reduced Service   Check your whole journey before you travel   Thursday 22 December   0700 to 2200 only      
31-Dec   Industrial Action Reduced Service   Check your whole journey before you travel   Friday 23 December   0700 to 2200 only      
01-Jan   Industrial Action Reduced Service   Check your whole journey before you travel   Friday 23 December   0700 to 2200 only      
02-Jan   Industrial Action Reduced Service   Check your whole journey before you travel   TBC   0700 to 2200 only RMT industrial action ends at 2359      
03-Jan   Strike Day - service summary TBC   Only travel if absolutely necessary   TBC   0730 to 1830 only      
04-Jan   Strike Day - service summary TBC   Only travel if absolutely necessary   TBC   0730 to 1830 only      
05-Jan   Late Startup service summary   Only travel if absolutely necessary   TBC   First trains depart at around 0730      
06-Jan   Strike Day - service summary TBC   Only travel if absolutely necessary   TBC   0730 to 1830 only      
07-Jan   Strike Day - service summary TBC   Only travel if absolutely necessary   TBC   0730 to 1830 only      
08-Jan   Late Startup service summary   Only travel if absolutely necessary   TBC   0730 to 1830 only      

:sad:
                  

New Winter of Discontent? 

[Admiral Yi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onYyMrUiQ0s

Where are you really from?

[The Larch]

Brexit rule that makes EU citizens reapply to stay in UK is unlawful, court says

Judge says Home Office rule that puts those with 'pre-settled status' at risk of deportation is 'wrong in law'


Home Office rules that could put millions of EU citizens at risk of job losses or deportation after Brexit have been found to be unlawful by the high court.

Under the current EU settlement scheme, EU citizens who had been in the country for less than five years before Brexit and who had "pre-settled status" are obliged to reapply to upgrade their status to "settled status" after being in the country for five years.

If they did not, they would automatically lose their rights to reside, work, rent property or access services including the NHS, under Home Office rules.

But in a ruling handed out on Wednesday in the high court, Justice Lane described the rule as "wrong in law and that the EU settlement scheme is accordingly unlawful" as it "purports to abrogate the right of permanent residence".

Lane ruled that a right of residence could only be lost in very specific circumstances that were clearly defined in the withdrawal agreement.

The loss of rights because someone failed to apply to upgrade from pre-settled status to settled status was not one of those circumstances, Lane said.

Under the Brexit withdrawal agreement, the UK and the EU agreed that both EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU could lawfully remain in the countries they lived in if they had settled there before Brexit.

But only the UK and Slovenia required citizens to make a second application to remain if they had been in the country for less than five years, the court was told.

Under the Home Office rules, if any of those with "pre-settled status" did not apply to upgrade their status to "settled status" after being in the country for five years they would automatically lose their rights to reside, work, rent property or access services including the NHS. They were also liable to deportation.

Lane said he had "no reason to doubt" that the Home Office would support vulnerable people with pre-settled status but that the withdrawal agreement "precluded" the Home Office from imposing a requirement for further leave to be in the country as a "condition for retaining such rights".

He said: "If the defendant is right, a very large number of people face the most serious uncertainty."

The Home Office minister Lord Murray said the government took its "obligations to securing their [EU citizens'] rights in the UK very seriously. The EU settlement scheme goes above and beyond our obligations under the withdrawal agreement, protecting EU citizens' rights and giving them a route to settlement in the UK.

"We are disappointed by this judgment, which we intend to appeal."

The judicial review of the Home Office's interpretation of agreement had been taken by the Independent Monitoring Authority, a statutory body set up to protect EU citizens' rights in the UK.

The IMA chief executive, Kathryn Chamberlain, said she was "pleased that the judge has recognised the significant impact the issue could have had on the lives and livelihoods of citizens with pre-settled status in the UK".

"When we brought this judicial review, our intention was to provide clarity for citizens with pre-settled status, of which there were over 2.4 million when we filed this case in December 2021. This judgment that the current system is unlawful provides that clarity," she added.

The campaign group the3million said: "We strongly welcome this judgment, which stands to protect vulnerable citizens who are granted pre-settled status under the EU settlement scheme, and who could lose their right to work, rent, travel, benefits, healthcare and more – just for not making a further application in the years ahead.

"We are pleased that the judge agrees with the3million that the point of the EU settlement scheme is to create a clear distinction between those who are beneficiaries of the withdrawal agreement and those who are not. Once a beneficiary, people cannot lose their rights just by forgetting to make a second UK immigration application – the withdrawal agreement does not allow it."

The group, which supported the case, said such a rule would impact some of the most vulnerable in society including children and elderly in care, victims of domestic abuse who did not have paperwork and those who for one reason or another led chaotic lives.

According to Home Office quarterly figures in September, 2.7 million of 6 million EU citizens granted status to remain in the UK post Brexit had "pre-settled status".

[Sheilbh]

He is more of a typical appointee to the House of Lords as a former Deputy Labour Leader - but not really sure Tom Watson should be there given he basically spread a conspiracy theory using parliamentary privilege. Particularly because that conspiracy theory very quickly took some nasty overtones he apparently didn't spot and how similar conspiracies in the US are basically QAnon:

Tom Watson apologises in Lords for promoting false abuse allegations
Ex-Labour deputy leader uses first speech to express remorse for role in seeking action over claims of Westminster paedophile ring
Peter Walker Political correspondent
@peterwalker99
Wed 21 Dec 2022 17.03 GMT
Last modified on Wed 21 Dec 2022 17.10 GMT

The former Labour deputy leader Tom Watson has used his maiden speech in the Lords to formally apologise for highlighting allegations of historical abuse levelled by Carl Beech, who was later revealed to be a serial fantasist.

Lord Watson, who was also a minister during 18 years as an MP, left parliament before the 2019 election and had been expected to join the upper house swiftly.

However, his peerage was initially turned down by the commission that vets new members of the Lords, seemingly because of his role in seeking action over the claims by Beech of a supposed murderous VIP paedophile ring in Westminster.

Police had raided the homes of the late Conservative minister Leon Brittan, the late military chief Lord Bramall, as well as the former Tory MP Harvey Proctor based on the allegations.

Beech was later jailed for 18 years after a court found he had fabricated the allegations. Brittan died in 2015, before he was publicly exonerated.

Speaking in the Lords for the first time on Wednesday after being confirmed as a peer, Watson apologised to Brittan's widow, saying: "The first area where I think consensus is always better than disagreement is police reform.

"I apologise unreservedly to Lady Brittan for the role that I played in the investigation of historic child sexual abuse. Her experiences led to several recommendations about how the police conduct themselves. I'm sorry and I owe it to her to work to achieve those aims in this House in the months and years ahead."

Lucy Neville-Rolfe, a Cabinet Office minister, responded by praising Watson's speech "and for the apology he rightly made to Lady Brittan".

Watson is now chair of the industry group UK Music and an adviser on problem gambling to the betting firm Flutter Entertainment.

In his speech to the Lords, he noted the difference between his experiences there and in the Commons. "From the day of introduction, I was made to feel very welcome," he said. "The doorkeepers, Garter and his team, Black Rod and her team, our clerks, the catering staff and our IT people – they all displayed kindness and professionalism and it is deeply appreciated."

While several peers welcomed Watson, some Tory contemporaries of Brittan are likely to be less warm. When Watson's peerage was announced in October, the Tory former chancellor and now peer Norman Lamont called it "an absolute disgrace" and a "stain" on the Lords.

Also "an advisor on problem gambling to betting company..." is very

[Tamas]

So the government has latched on to the new Scottish gender recognition law like a drowning person to a straw at hand.

They are saying they oppose it due to safety concerns for women and children. Is this an attempt to have our own US-style Toiletgate? Because that would be really pathetic.

[celedhring]

So the government has latched on to the new Scottish gender recognition law like a drowning person to a straw at hand.

They are saying they oppose it due to safety concerns for women and children. Is this an attempt to have our own US-style Toiletgate? Because that would be really pathetic.

We are having it too, so you won't be spared.

[Gups]

So the government has latched on to the new Scottish gender recognition law like a drowning person to a straw at hand.

They are saying they oppose it due to safety concerns for women and children. Is this an attempt to have our own US-style Toiletgate? Because that would be really pathetic.

What if they really are concerned about women's safety? Sturgeon certainly doesn't seem to give a toss

[Tamas]

I mean, is it really an argument that some men would go through the process of having themselves legally declared a woman just so they can perv on women in public restrooms? Just how much contempt can the Right have for their own supporters?

[Sheilbh]

We are having it too, so you won't be spared.

Yeah it has been a very big story in Scotland too. I think it's the most debated and consulted on legislation ever passed by the Scottish Parliament and it had over 150 proposed amendments.

It has split the SNP where you've had a splinter party founded largely by people who disagree with this bill. It caused the Scottish Greens to break off relations with the Greens of England and Wales (who support the legislation, but had a "gender critical" candidate in their leadership race). I think several Labour and SNP MSPs have had the whip withdrawn for voting against this legislation. There have also been regular protests by various "gender critical" grouops throughout the entire process (including when the bill was passed in the chamber). It was passed by a very large majority but I think it was always going to cause a response from the UK government (whose point seems at least arguable to me).

I've said before but the RF bit of TERF is a real thing in the UK. Reforming the Gender Recognition Act was something that was proposed by a Tory chaired and majority select committee and backed by Theresa May's government. There has been significant push back from some women. But the biggest splits and biggest rows in the UK are within the left. The Guardian has lost, I think, 3 women columnists because of their views on this, there are big fights within Labour and the Greens over it too. I know there's a theory that they're all astro-turfed by right wing religious nuts but in my experience there's a genuine split of views. And I struggle with some

Similarly opinion polling on this is really mixed. There are splits and it's one of those weird ones where people support the bill when you describe it overall but then actually don't approve of the specific changes it's making.

The Tories are relatively united in supporting the Gender Recognition Act 2004 and don't think it should be amended.

[Tamas]

To be fair I get the part of síngle-sex safe spaces being compromised (it would be good if lawmakers had the guts to differentiate between sex and gender) but how practical a concern that can be?

[Sheilbh]

Sex and gender are different in UK equalities and discrimination law (gender transition is also protected). The bigger issue than this law which reforms the process of getting a "Gender Recognition Certificate" which changes the sex on your birth certificate, is that the courts have now confirmed (lower courts only) that a GRC changes someone's sex.