Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[HVC]

Right noises being made otherwise. Finally saying we need a follow up referendum.

You should have a referendum about having the referendum first, just to be safe.

This is a stupid slippery slope to referendums. The Brexit vote was not binding. Your government should just snap to its senses, not rely on this as a way it. it opens up stupid precedences.

[garbon]

[Josquius]

Right noises being made otherwise. Finally saying we need a follow up referendum.

You should have a referendum about having the referendum first, just to be safe.

This is a stupid slippery slope to referendums. The Brexit vote was not binding. Your government should just snap to its senses, not rely on this as a way it. it opens up stupid precedences.

Sure. Ideal world.  But realistically not going to happen.

[Tamas]

A second referendum is a terrible idea, so it will happen.

Then of course if Remain wins, the score is 1-1 so we will have to have a third.

If Leave wins we will be back to square 1 of course as to what form a Leave did people vote on.



At this stage, no matter the final decision of Parliament, be it revoking Article 50, signing a deal, or leaving without one, a lot of people will be absolutely pissed and furious. Might as well choose the best option, which is to revoke, and weather the storm that's bound to happen regardless. Seems like the LibDems will actually campaign to do just that.



Meanwhile, on the No.10 press briefing, for the question of Johnson seeking a NI-only backstop the reply was "We are not seeking a Northern Ireland-only backstop."

Which I think is notable for the lack of rhetoric BS wrapped around it, thereby confirming it to me the that they are, in fact, looking for a NI-only backstop. With which everyone except the DUP could live with, and nobody cares about them anymore.

[Josquius]

A second referendum is a terrible idea, so it will happen.

Then of course if Remain wins, the score is 1-1 so we will have to have a third.

2-1.

And sure, I wouldn't put it the brexiters to keep calling for another. But they're a dying breed. Within a decade there's no way they would stand a chance in a referendum. I can't see the brexit issue completely going away overnight but stopping it for now is a valuable victory.

If Leave wins we will be back to square 1 of course as to what form a Leave did people vote on.

Not at all.
The main advantage of another referendum is that it means we decide on an actual definition of brexit. No longer is everything reliant on a vague every brexit under the sun vote from 3 years ago, rather you'll have the results of a solid vote on one version of brexit.

[Tamas]

How do we decide on the actual definition of a Brexit? The only remotely realistic scenario is having a "no deal" and "with a deal" option and "with a deal" has at least half a dozen unanswered questions, and that's just on the most macro of scales.

[Josquius]

How do we decide on the actual definition of a Brexit? The only remotely realistic scenario is having a "no deal" and "with a deal" option and "with a deal" has at least half a dozen unanswered questions, and that's just on the most macro of scales.

We have a actual definition. May's deal.
Labour intend to come up with something better than that. Whether they will manage or not is neither here nor there. But its easy to get a definition.
Of course the reason brexit won in 2016 was that they could promise a million different versions at once, hence the powers that be have really gone back on their previous enthusiasm for another referendum

[Tamas]

Labour intend to come up with something better than that.

Please. You know as well as I do, it was Labour's cakeism to fight for votes. Like A customs union.

[Josquius]

Labour intend to come up with something better than that.

Please. You know as well as I do, it was Labour's cakeism to fight for votes. Like A customs union.

The EU have made a variety of possible options perfectly clear. May however gunned for an awkward hard brexit.
Labour can stick with May's deal, or pick one of the other soft brexit options.
I don't for a second think what they will come up with will be better than just remaining in the EU. But the point is we will have a definition of brexit to decide upon.

[Zanza]

Prorogation means that various bills necessary to regulate areas previously regulated by the EU will not have any legal foundation at the end of October. That will make no deal Brexit not just a foreign policy calamity with lots of open questions, but also a domestic mess. An example is the often mentioned fisheries and agriculture sector... 

[Tamas]

So what would you put on the ballot paper then?

1. Remain
2. No Deal
3. Leave EU but remain in single market and customs union
4. Leave EU and customs union, remain in single market
5. Leave EU and single market, remain in customs union
6. Leave EU, single market, and customs union

?

Would it be a single-choice thing? Because then the only two possible results are 1. and 2. as the not-entirely-insane Leave votes will be dividied up between 3 to 6.

Or maybe we should have a sub-section, rename 2. to "Leave" and then if you marked that, you get to chose between the above 2-6. What would happen to the main Leave vote though, if the enlightened citizen forgot to put a second X? Would it count as no deal?

[Tamas]

Prorogation means that various bills necessary to regulate areas previously regulated by the EU will not have any legal foundation at the end of October. That will make no deal Brexit not just a foreign policy calamity with lots of open questions, but also a domestic mess. An example is the often mentioned fisheries and agriculture sector...

Yes, but Johnson will still be in charge, so whatevs.

[Josquius]

So what would you put on the ballot paper then?

1. Remain
2. No Deal
3. Leave EU but remain in single market and customs union
4. Leave EU and customs union, remain in single market
5. Leave EU and single market, remain in customs union
6. Leave EU, single market, and customs union

?

Would it be a single-choice thing? Because then the only two possible results are 1. and 2. as the not-entirely-insane Leave votes will be dividied up between 3 to 6.

Or maybe we should have a sub-section, rename 2. to "Leave" and then if you marked that, you get to chose between the above 2-6. What would happen to the main Leave vote though, if the enlightened citizen forgot to put a second X? Would it count as no deal?

1: Accept the deal
2: Remain

[Tamas]

Fair enough, but I am afraid that ignores all the propaganda effort having been successfully spent radicalising the Leave side.

[Josquius]

Fair enough, but I am afraid that ignores all the propaganda effort having been successfully spent radicalising the Leave side.

Those fucks are never going to vote Labour anyway. And they can get in the sea for all the decent people of the country care.

Labour are specifically aiming for the not completely insane leave supporters here.
I've seen some more extreme people on the remain side say it should be no deal vs remain as it increases the chance of remain winning. But presenting as sensible a version of leave as possible is the right thing to do.