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and now.... Honduras.

Started by I Killed Kenny, June 28, 2009, 02:36:49 PM

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Neil

Quote from: derspiess on July 08, 2009, 11:28:26 AM
Quote from: Hansmeister on July 08, 2009, 10:49:45 AM
Can anyone make sense of this statement from the Obamateur?

"America cannot and should not seek to impose any system of government on any other country, nor would we presume to choose which party or individual should run a country. . .And we haven't always done what we should have on that front.  Even as we meet here today, America supports now the restoration of the democratically elected president of Honduras, even though he has strongly opposed American policies."

:blink:

Sure, he's saying we don't want to impose anything on the Hondurans and we want to impose their deposed leader on them.  That's on top of the fact that we don't want them to adhere to their constitution.  Perfect logic :D
Let's be fair.  Obama probably doesn't know anything about the Honduran constitution, nor does he care.  He's just mouthing platitudes.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Valmy

Quote from: Neil on July 08, 2009, 12:52:44 PM
Let's be fair.  Obama probably doesn't know anything about the Honduran constitution, nor does he care.  He's just mouthing platitudes.

I blame the State Department.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

jimmy olsen

Quote from: Valmy on July 08, 2009, 12:27:50 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 08, 2009, 11:52:34 AM
If his influence were limited to Venezuela, I'd agree with you, more or less.  But I think we've underestimated his ability to impact the region.

Ecuador and Bolivia are hardly some sort of massive sphere of influence.

I have full confidence his system will fail.  Besides what sort of activities are we doing in Latin America that can seriously be threatened by Chavez?
Anti-narcotic efforts.

Furthermore we should oppose the spread of dictatorships and communism out of principle.
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

garbon

Quote from: Valmy on July 08, 2009, 01:00:54 PM
I blame the State Department.

Hil should not have invited Mr. Deposed to the US.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Valmy

Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 08, 2009, 01:08:28 PM
Anti-narcotic efforts.

Furthermore we should oppose the spread of dictatorships and communism out of principle.

Um...the entire base of their popularity is opposition to us.  Dancing that dance is just what they want us to do Tim.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Siege

Quote from: Valmy on July 08, 2009, 01:23:44 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 08, 2009, 01:08:28 PM
Anti-narcotic efforts.

Furthermore we should oppose the spread of dictatorships and communism out of principle.

Um...the entire base of their popularity is opposition to us.  Dancing that dance is just what they want us to do Tim.


Do you mean that the majority of the people in latin america hate the US?



"All men are created equal, then some become infantry."

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't."

"Laissez faire et laissez passer, le monde va de lui même!"


Valmy

Quote from: Siege on July 08, 2009, 01:28:42 PM
Do you mean that the majority of the people in latin america hate the US?

They rather hate the image of us they are presented with.  We are the vile imperialists who keep them down or something ridiculous like that.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Siege

Quote from: Valmy on July 08, 2009, 01:31:05 PM
Quote from: Siege on July 08, 2009, 01:28:42 PM
Do you mean that the majority of the people in latin america hate the US?

They rather hate the image of us they are presented with.  We are the vile imperialists who keep them down or something ridiculous like that.

So, we treat them like children, just like we do with muslims.

Every man have the responsability to find out for himself whether the propaganda he is being fed is true or not. These people are to be judged by the same standards that we judge ourselves.



"All men are created equal, then some become infantry."

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't."

"Laissez faire et laissez passer, le monde va de lui même!"


Neil

Quote from: Siege on July 08, 2009, 01:38:19 PM
So, we treat them like children, just like we do with muslims.
More like the Israelis.  We forgive them their treason because they've had a rough time of it, and shovel money at them.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

derspiess

#114
Quote from: Valmy on July 08, 2009, 12:27:50 PM
Ecuador and Bolivia are hardly some sort of massive sphere of influence.

The full list is:
Venezuela
Ecuador
Bolivia
Cuba
Nicaragua
Antigua
Dominica
St. Vincent
(formerly) Honduras

Throw in Paraguay & El Salvador who aren't officially in ALBA but might as well be.  Also factor in Argentina & other governments who are more friendly to Chavez than the US and it starts to add up.

QuoteI have full confidence his system will fail.  Besides what sort of activities are we doing in Latin America that can seriously be threatened by Chavez?

Well, nothing-- other than trade, drug interdiction, energy supply, and national security...

edit: I do agree with you that his system will fail... eventually.  But the cost of us ignoring him may outweigh the cost of taking smart, focused action.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

derspiess

Quote from: Neil on July 08, 2009, 12:52:44 PM
Let's be fair.  Obama probably doesn't know anything about the Honduran constitution, nor does he care.  He's just mouthing platitudes.

Are you kidding me?  I though that the infinitely wise, educated, diplomatic Democrats knew all that stuff.  It's not like they're Republicans.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Neil

Quote from: derspiess on July 08, 2009, 03:03:27 PM
Quote from: Neil on July 08, 2009, 12:52:44 PM
Let's be fair.  Obama probably doesn't know anything about the Honduran constitution, nor does he care.  He's just mouthing platitudes.

Are you kidding me?  I though that the infinitely wise, educated, diplomatic Democrats knew all that stuff.  It's not like they're Republicans.
Don't be ridiculous.  Democrats are still Americans.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

garbon

Quote from: derspiess on July 08, 2009, 03:03:27 PM
Are you kidding me?  I though that the infinitely wise, educated, diplomatic Democrats knew all that stuff.  It's not like they're Republicans.

They know about the important stuff like healthcare and economic reform.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Valmy

#118
Quote from: derspiess on July 08, 2009, 02:56:15 PM
edit: I do agree with you that his system will fail... eventually.  But the cost of us ignoring him may outweigh the cost of taking smart, focused action.

What sorts of actions do you have in mind?

Anyway as far as hurting our trade...well Congress has already been working hard on that by blocking our free trade agreements.  Their Union masters will probably be delighted at this new Chavez thingy.

Quoteother than trade, drug interdiction, energy supply, and national security

Ok I can get the drug thing but I seriously doubt we are going to have a problem anywhere else.  A couple Latin American countries are going to attack the United States somehow?
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

derspiess

Quote from: Neil on July 08, 2009, 03:06:19 PM
Don't be ridiculous.  Democrats are still Americans.

Now you're being ridiculous.  The Dems came up with the idea of a mislabeled reset button as the cornerstone of our new diplomatic approach to Russia.  What other evidence do you need of their diplomatic skill??
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall