Climate Change/Mass Extinction Megathread

[Richard Hakluyt]

A new UK study finds that the perceived generational divide on climate change (in the UK at least) is a myth :

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/15/generational-conflict-over-climate-crisis-is-a-myth-uk-study-finds

[crazy canuck]

A new UK study finds that the perceived generational divide on climate change (in the UK at least) is a myth :

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/15/generational-conflict-over-climate-crisis-is-a-myth-uk-study-finds

This is hopeful news

"Far from being an obsession of a young, activist few, support for measures that put our lives on a more sustainable footing as we look to building back from the Covid-19 pandemic command broad support across generations," he added. "They could be a route to increased engagement among groups increasingly disillusioned with politics."

[Josquius]

Ehh... Hopeful and worrying at the same time.
If it was just the oldies dismissing global warming we could just watch them die then save the world.
But that idiocy afflicts so many young too....

I've certainly seen it getting tied into conservative culture war business. Which means an awful lot of people actively working to encourage climate change..

[crazy canuck]

Ehh... Hopeful and worrying at the same time.
If it was just the oldies dismissing global warming we could just watch them die then save the world.
But that idiocy afflicts so many young too....

I've certainly seen it getting tied into conservative culture war business. Which means an awful lot of people actively working to encourage climate change..

If I am reading the article correctly it is not climate denial that is infecting the youth, but fatalism.  If they can be shown that something can be done then that may galvanize that whole demographic (well except for the few youth who are irretrievably conservative).

[Sheilbh]

If I am reading the article correctly it is not climate denial that is infecting the youth, but fatalism.  If they can be shown that something can be done then that may galvanize that whole demographic (well except for the few youth who are irretrievably conservative).

Yeah I think there is a strong fatalism/nihilism around this topic in younger people - and it isn't helped by politicians who want action.

It's a challenge of climate politics of how you simultaneously communicate the severity of the issue without making it seem so big or so insurmountable or inevitable that it actually starts sort of de-mobilising people. I'm not sure many have got the balance right (and the media have a role to play here too).

[alfred russel]

Sheilbh, it is the same shit with covid. Why does the identification of a major problem in any way imply that there is a decent solution?

[crazy canuck]

Sheilbh, it is the same shit with covid. Why does the identification of a major problem in any way imply that there is a decent solution?

I don't understand, with COVID there is an obvious and easy answer - vaccination.

[alfred russel]

Sheilbh, it is the same shit with covid. Why does the identification of a major problem in any way imply that there is a decent solution?

I don't understand, with COVID there is an obvious and easy answer - vaccination.

I more had in mind the situation in March 2020--I agree vaccination is a current obvious and easy answer.

[crazy canuck]

Sheilbh, it is the same shit with covid. Why does the identification of a major problem in any way imply that there is a decent solution?

I don't understand, with COVID there is an obvious and easy answer - vaccination.

I more had in mind the situation in March 2020--I agree vaccination is a current obvious and easy answer.

Ah, got it.

[Neil]

If I am reading the article correctly it is not climate denial that is infecting the youth, but fatalism.  If they can be shown that something can be done then that may galvanize that whole demographic (well except for the few youth who are irretrievably conservative).

Yeah I think there is a strong fatalism/nihilism around this topic in younger people - and it isn't helped by politicians who want action.

It's a challenge of climate politics of how you simultaneously communicate the severity of the issue without making it seem so big or so insurmountable or inevitable that it actually starts sort of de-mobilising people. I'm not sure many have got the balance right (and the media have a role to play here too).

That is the trick, isn't it?  The idea that we can do this, but at the same time doing this is going to be incredibly punishing and that so many things that you took for granted will have to be taken away from you is an incredibly hard line to walk.

[Sheilbh]

That is the trick, isn't it?  The idea that we can do this, but at the same time doing this is going to be incredibly punishing and that so many things that you took for granted will have to be taken away from you is an incredibly hard line to walk.

Yeah that's the other bit that's tough - and I actually think with good policies (backed by public money) it won't be that transformative on the lives of individuals in the developed world (because we can afford to make good policy decisions).

I've said before but I actually think the most important event in the democratic world in recent years was the Australian election - outweighing Trump or Brexit. Not necessarily because of the direct impact, though they're bad as Australia's a big emitter/fossil fuel state, but because of what it told us about climate and democratic politics. I think Australia's a really key case as a country that is disproportionately affected by climate crisis and as a major fossil fuel producer and exporter. Labour went all in on climate as their big issue and had that challenging line of this is an enormous issue, this may require fundamental shifts to your lives (especially in a country that produces a lot of raw materials like coal) but the future will be great and have good green jobs and be a better country. They lost.

I've said it before but it's why I like the rhetorical device of Green New Deal or, in the UK, Green Industrial Revolution because it taps into historic examples of transformative change that helps frame the issue for people. I still think the natural rhetoric is of war - total mobilisation of the state to fight a serious, existential challenge (same for covid) - but I think that rhetorical seam has been fully tapped after the wars on drugs, poverty, cancer, crime and terror

[Neil]

I think there will be a lot of things that people will notice.  Getting rid of international travel and consumer plastic items would be gigantic.  Of course, my experience would be significantly different from your own.  I'm not even sure that life in my area is practically possible in a low-carbon world. 

[Barrister]

I think there will be a lot of things that people will notice.  Getting rid of international travel and consumer plastic items would be gigantic.  Of course, my experience would be significantly different from your own.  I'm not even sure that life in my area is practically possible in a low-carbon world.

Low carbon is not zero carbon.  There are options for Alberta.

[Neil]

I think there will be a lot of things that people will notice.  Getting rid of international travel and consumer plastic items would be gigantic.  Of course, my experience would be significantly different from your own.  I'm not even sure that life in my area is practically possible in a low-carbon world.

Low carbon is not zero carbon.  There are options for Alberta.

I wonder.  There are certainly things that would be huge changes, like the inability to travel in the winter. 

[Barrister]

I think there will be a lot of things that people will notice.  Getting rid of international travel and consumer plastic items would be gigantic.  Of course, my experience would be significantly different from your own.  I'm not even sure that life in my area is practically possible in a low-carbon world.

Low carbon is not zero carbon.  There are options for Alberta.

I wonder.  There are certainly things that would be huge changes, like the inability to travel in the winter.

We're trying to reduce carbon output by 30-50%.  Which don't get me wrong will be hard!  But it's not impossible.

Here's the break-down of Alberta's greenhouse gas emissions.  https://www.alberta.ca/climate-change-alberta.aspx  Residential use is only 6%.  Oil sands produce 26%, electricity 18% and oil and gas mining 17%.

As we move to decrease oil and gas demand around the world our production will taper down as well, so we can potentially see big decreases in those numbers.  Then we really have to tackle electricity generation.  Again a combination of more renewables like wind and solar here in Alberta, and invest in increased production of hydro in BC and Manitoba should help a lot.

With more green electricity that then opens up lots of room for electric vehicles to reduce transportation.