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Climate Change/Mass Extinction Megathread

Started by Syt, November 17, 2015, 05:50:30 AM

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grumbler

Quote from: PDH on August 23, 2019, 06:27:59 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 23, 2019, 05:38:21 PM
I'm gonna quote you in my government class this fall.

When you get quoted by someone who witnessed the collapse of the Bronze Age Civilizations, you have made it

I was napping that afternoon and missed it. :cry:
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

HisMajestyBOB

Quote from: grumbler on August 23, 2019, 05:38:21 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on August 23, 2019, 05:24:52 PM
Quote from: Berkut on August 23, 2019, 01:28:09 PM
Or hell, who am I kidding? If you can convince yourself that the entire planetary climate science establishment is engaged in a giant conspiracy to fake climate change, you can convince yourself that a 90% decline in salmon is either a lie, or due to something beyond our control anyway.

Precisely.

The crisis of evidence is not about the lack of it. It's a crisis of meaning and trust. What does the evidence mean, and who gets to ascribe that meaning. As far as I can tell, you can't fight that with more evidence.

I'm gonna quote you in my government class this fall.

What is the proper citation for a forums post?
Three lovely Prada points for HoI2 help

frunk

Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 23, 2019, 07:10:00 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 23, 2019, 06:57:26 PM
Serious question:  Why were we able to address ozone depletion in the 1980's, but not climate change now?

Because the technology already existed and the cost was not prohibitive.

Partially true.  The replacements for CFCs didn't exist during the first calls for bans in the late 70s.  As late as the 90s there were still companies claiming they didn't have suitable alternatives.

Cost is a better argument, although even there we see ass backwards stuff like subsidizing coal.  We aren't trying nearly as hard as we could even without raising economic costs.

viper37

Quote from: Razgovory on August 23, 2019, 06:57:26 PM
Serious question:  Why were we able to address ozone depletion in the 1980's, but not climate change now?
Because it was a cause tackled by right-wingers.
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

Valmy

Quote from: viper37 on August 23, 2019, 09:35:33 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 23, 2019, 06:57:26 PM
Serious question:  Why were we able to address ozone depletion in the 1980's, but not climate change now?
Because it was a cause tackled by right-wingers.

GHW Bush did a good job. That was back when people generally agreed on the facts, they just disagreed on the solutions.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

viper37

Quote from: Valmy on August 23, 2019, 11:23:31 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 23, 2019, 09:35:33 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 23, 2019, 06:57:26 PM
Serious question:  Why were we able to address ozone depletion in the 1980's, but not climate change now?
Because it was a cause tackled by right-wingers.

GHW Bush did a good job.
... And Brian Mulroney ;)
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

Savonarola

Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on August 23, 2019, 07:55:58 PM
What is the proper citation for a forums post?

Here you go.

While it may sound silly; I've seen online forums quoted in an article in the Florida State Historic Journal.  (It was a sociological article about the Hispanic ghettos around Orlando; not a discussion of the Civil War or anything like that.)
In Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace—and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock

grumbler

Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on August 23, 2019, 07:55:58 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 23, 2019, 05:38:21 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on August 23, 2019, 05:24:52 PM
Quote from: Berkut on August 23, 2019, 01:28:09 PM
Or hell, who am I kidding? If you can convince yourself that the entire planetary climate science establishment is engaged in a giant conspiracy to fake climate change, you can convince yourself that a 90% decline in salmon is either a lie, or due to something beyond our control anyway.

Precisely.

The crisis of evidence is not about the lack of it. It's a crisis of meaning and trust. What does the evidence mean, and who gets to ascribe that meaning. As far as I can tell, you can't fight that with more evidence.

I'm gonna quote you in my government class this fall.

What is the proper citation for a forums post?

Which system?
AMA?
MLA?
Chicago?
IEEE?
AMA?
ASA?

Purdue OWL has your back on those. https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/purdue_owl.html


In MLA:
Oexmelin. "Re: Everything's fine/fucked? - Climate Change Megathread" Languish, August 23, 2019, http://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,13519.msg1197263.html Accessed August 23, 2019

The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

HisMajestyBOB

Thanks. Citing forum discussion posts did not come up when I was writing my thesis in grad school.
APA has a specific citation style for discussion forums which includes the message number, while MLA is pretty similar to their generic internet citation.
Three lovely Prada points for HoI2 help

crazy canuck

Quote from: Berkut on August 23, 2019, 01:28:09 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 23, 2019, 12:36:15 PM
Quote from: Berkut on August 23, 2019, 12:21:37 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 23, 2019, 08:27:31 AM
The salmon run this year was anticipated to be 5 million that has now been downgraded to 600,000

One of the main reasons identified in a report which made the reduced estimate is the significant warming of the ocean.

"An unprecedented heatwave, nicknamed "The Blob", dominated the Northeast Pacific Ocean from 2013-2016 (Figure 2). This ocean warming contributed to physical and biological changes, some of which continue to persist. Sea-surface-temperatures (SST) during the heatwave were 3-5°C above seasonal averages, extending down to depths of 100 m (Bond et al. 2015, Ross and Robert 2018, Smale et al. 2019). Climate modeling has shown that this heatwave can best be explained by human- caused warming (Walsh et al. 2018)."




Source?

https://waves-vagues.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/40807071.pdf

Thanks.

We need more of this....I think.

More concrete examples of actual bad outcomes.

Of course, this is a trailing indicator, which isn't ideal when it comes to a problem that has to do with, oh I don't know, massive damage to the environment.

But still, some actual measureable and tangible fucked up eco systems.

Or hell, who am I kidding? If you can convince yourself that the entire planetary climate science establishment is engaged in a giant conspiracy to fake climate change, you can convince yourself that a 90% decline in salmon is either a lie, or due to something beyond our control anyway.

There is a good feature article about ocean warming and sea rise in the economist this week.  A hopeful sign that the need to take steps now is becoming less controversial.

We have a long way to go though.  The idea that mitigating the effects of climate change (ie reducing carbon now) is far less expensive then adapting to the effects of climate change is not a well known or accepted concept. But I guess it has always been is hard to convince people that short term pain for long term gain is a good idea.

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Oexmelin on August 23, 2019, 09:54:37 AM
From Bolsonaro's foreign policy advisor: « He added: "If you are wondering who is going to save the Amazon, here's a very straightforward answer for you: It's not the empty, hysterical and misleading rhetoric of the mainstream media, transnational bureaucrats and NGOs."

He's right of course. Those people can't save the Amazon when executive power is held by corrupt, ignorant fascists like Bolsonaro.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Tamas

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/29/heathrow-activists-fly-drones-attempt-ground-flights

QuoteActivists with Heathrow Pause, a splinter group of Extinction Rebellion, have said they will operate small toy drones from 3am on Friday 13 September.

A spokesman for the organisation said it expected "somewhere between 50 to a couple of hundred people" to be involved in the action, with each person using a drone. With disruption intended to last for a number of days and potentially longer, the activists said they "can't stand aside" and had to act.


:bleeding:


garbon

Quote from: Tamas on August 29, 2019, 06:45:19 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/29/heathrow-activists-fly-drones-attempt-ground-flights

QuoteActivists with Heathrow Pause, a splinter group of Extinction Rebellion, have said they will operate small toy drones from 3am on Friday 13 September.

A spokesman for the organisation said it expected "somewhere between 50 to a couple of hundred people" to be involved in the action, with each person using a drone. With disruption intended to last for a number of days and potentially longer, the activists said they "can't stand aside" and had to act.


:bleeding:

It is nice that they've already stated their intentions to break the law. Should make arresting them and convictions easier.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

crazy canuck

Quote from: garbon on August 29, 2019, 07:28:28 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 29, 2019, 06:45:19 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/29/heathrow-activists-fly-drones-attempt-ground-flights

QuoteActivists with Heathrow Pause, a splinter group of Extinction Rebellion, have said they will operate small toy drones from 3am on Friday 13 September.

A spokesman for the organisation said it expected "somewhere between 50 to a couple of hundred people" to be involved in the action, with each person using a drone. With disruption intended to last for a number of days and potentially longer, the activists said they "can't stand aside" and had to act.


:bleeding:

It is nice that they've already stated their intentions to break the law. Should make arresting them and convictions easier.

Most likely exactly why they announced it ahead of time.  They want the exposure to their message.  A lot better to announce ahead of time so people know why they are being arrested.

Tamas

Also, at least people in the planes will know why they crash and die