Climate Change/Mass Extinction Megathread

[grumbler]

I'm gonna quote you in my government class this fall.

When you get quoted by someone who witnessed the collapse of the Bronze Age Civilizations, you have made it

I was napping that afternoon and missed it.

[HisMajestyBOB]

Or hell, who am I kidding? If you can convince yourself that the entire planetary climate science establishment is engaged in a giant conspiracy to fake climate change, you can convince yourself that a 90% decline in salmon is either a lie, or due to something beyond our control anyway.

Precisely.

The crisis of evidence is not about the lack of it. It's a crisis of meaning and trust. What does the evidence mean, and who gets to ascribe that meaning. As far as I can tell, you can't fight that with more evidence.

I'm gonna quote you in my government class this fall.

What is the proper citation for a forums post?

[frunk]

Serious question:  Why were we able to address ozone depletion in the 1980's, but not climate change now?

Because the technology already existed and the cost was not prohibitive.

Partially true.  The replacements for CFCs didn't exist during the first calls for bans in the late 70s.  As late as the 90s there were still companies claiming they didn't have suitable alternatives.

Cost is a better argument, although even there we see ass backwards stuff like subsidizing coal.  We aren't trying nearly as hard as we could even without raising economic costs.

[viper37]

Serious question:  Why were we able to address ozone depletion in the 1980's, but not climate change now?

Because it was a cause tackled by right-wingers.

[Valmy]

Serious question:  Why were we able to address ozone depletion in the 1980's, but not climate change now?

Because it was a cause tackled by right-wingers.

GHW Bush did a good job. That was back when people generally agreed on the facts, they just disagreed on the solutions.

[viper37]

Serious question:  Why were we able to address ozone depletion in the 1980's, but not climate change now?

Because it was a cause tackled by right-wingers.

GHW Bush did a good job.

... And Brian Mulroney

[Savonarola]

What is the proper citation for a forums post?

Here you go.

While it may sound silly; I've seen online forums quoted in an article in the Florida State Historic Journal.  (It was a sociological article about the Hispanic ghettos around Orlando; not a discussion of the Civil War or anything like that.)

[grumbler]

Or hell, who am I kidding? If you can convince yourself that the entire planetary climate science establishment is engaged in a giant conspiracy to fake climate change, you can convince yourself that a 90% decline in salmon is either a lie, or due to something beyond our control anyway.

Precisely.

The crisis of evidence is not about the lack of it. It's a crisis of meaning and trust. What does the evidence mean, and who gets to ascribe that meaning. As far as I can tell, you can't fight that with more evidence.

I'm gonna quote you in my government class this fall.

What is the proper citation for a forums post?

Which system?
AMA?
MLA?
Chicago?
IEEE?
AMA?
ASA?

Purdue OWL has your back on those. https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/purdue_owl.html


In MLA:
Oexmelin. "Re: Everything's fine/fucked? - Climate Change Megathread" Languish, August 23, 2019, http://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,13519.msg1197263.html Accessed August 23, 2019

[HisMajestyBOB]

Thanks. Citing forum discussion posts did not come up when I was writing my thesis in grad school.
APA has a specific citation style for discussion forums which includes the message number, while MLA is pretty similar to their generic internet citation.

[crazy canuck]

The salmon run this year was anticipated to be 5 million that has now been downgraded to 600,000

One of the main reasons identified in a report which made the reduced estimate is the significant warming of the ocean.

"An unprecedented heatwave, nicknamed "The Blob", dominated the Northeast Pacific Ocean from 2013-2016 (Figure 2). This ocean warming contributed to physical and biological changes, some of which continue to persist. Sea-surface-temperatures (SST) during the heatwave were 3-5°C above seasonal averages, extending down to depths of 100 m (Bond et al. 2015, Ross and Robert 2018, Smale et al. 2019). Climate modeling has shown that this heatwave can best be explained by human- caused warming (Walsh et al. 2018)."

Source?

https://waves-vagues.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/40807071.pdf

Thanks.

We need more of this....I think.

More concrete examples of actual bad outcomes.

Of course, this is a trailing indicator, which isn't ideal when it comes to a problem that has to do with, oh I don't know, massive damage to the environment.

But still, some actual measureable and tangible fucked up eco systems.

Or hell, who am I kidding? If you can convince yourself that the entire planetary climate science establishment is engaged in a giant conspiracy to fake climate change, you can convince yourself that a 90% decline in salmon is either a lie, or due to something beyond our control anyway.

There is a good feature article about ocean warming and sea rise in the economist this week.  A hopeful sign that the need to take steps now is becoming less controversial.

We have a long way to go though.  The idea that mitigating the effects of climate change (ie reducing carbon now) is far less expensive then adapting to the effects of climate change is not a well known or accepted concept. But I guess it has always been is hard to convince people that short term pain for long term gain is a good idea.

[The Minsky Moment]

From Bolsonaro's foreign policy advisor: « He added: "If you are wondering who is going to save the Amazon, here's a very straightforward answer for you: It's not the empty, hysterical and misleading rhetoric of the mainstream media, transnational bureaucrats and NGOs."

He's right of course. Those people can't save the Amazon when executive power is held by corrupt, ignorant fascists like Bolsonaro.

[Tamas]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/29/heathrow-activists-fly-drones-attempt-ground-flights

Activists with Heathrow Pause, a splinter group of Extinction Rebellion, have said they will operate small toy drones from 3am on Friday 13 September.

A spokesman for the organisation said it expected "somewhere between 50 to a couple of hundred people" to be involved in the action, with each person using a drone. With disruption intended to last for a number of days and potentially longer, the activists said they "can't stand aside" and had to act.

[garbon]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/29/heathrow-activists-fly-drones-attempt-ground-flights

Activists with Heathrow Pause, a splinter group of Extinction Rebellion, have said they will operate small toy drones from 3am on Friday 13 September.

A spokesman for the organisation said it expected "somewhere between 50 to a couple of hundred people" to be involved in the action, with each person using a drone. With disruption intended to last for a number of days and potentially longer, the activists said they "can't stand aside" and had to act.

It is nice that they've already stated their intentions to break the law. Should make arresting them and convictions easier.

[crazy canuck]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/29/heathrow-activists-fly-drones-attempt-ground-flights

Activists with Heathrow Pause, a splinter group of Extinction Rebellion, have said they will operate small toy drones from 3am on Friday 13 September.

A spokesman for the organisation said it expected "somewhere between 50 to a couple of hundred people" to be involved in the action, with each person using a drone. With disruption intended to last for a number of days and potentially longer, the activists said they "can't stand aside" and had to act.

It is nice that they've already stated their intentions to break the law. Should make arresting them and convictions easier.

Most likely exactly why they announced it ahead of time.  They want the exposure to their message.  A lot better to announce ahead of time so people know why they are being arrested.

[Tamas]

Also, at least people in the planes will know why they crash and die