Climate Change/Mass Extinction Megathread

[Razgovory]

Because it isn't the killing that does it, it is the returning land to its native state.

If the Mongols killing a few tens of millions didn't result in the depopulation of large areas that then over several decades returned to a state without human agriculture, it would not have the same effect.

Yes. Though there is some indication that did happen. But he Black Death does not seem to have a mortality rate quite as extreme as what seems to have happened in the New World. And though people talk about how the Mongols destroyed massive amounts of peasants and left lots of land to fallow it may not have been on the same scale. They did destroy lots of ancient irrigation systems that never got repaired as well.

Though I find it surprising pre-modern agriculture can have a noticeable impact on the climate like that.

It's possible that mortality rates of disease in the New World have been exaggerated...

[Valmy]

It's possible that mortality rates of disease in the New World have been exaggerated...

They are very rough estimates to be sure.

[Barrister]

Because it isn't the killing that does it, it is the returning land to its native state.

If the Mongols killing a few tens of millions didn't result in the depopulation of large areas that then over several decades returned to a state without human agriculture, it would not have the same effect.

Yes. Though there is some indication that did happen. But he Black Death does not seem to have a mortality rate quite as extreme as what seems to have happened in the New World. And though people talk about how the Mongols destroyed massive amounts of peasants and left lots of land to fallow it may not have been on the same scale. They did destroy lots of ancient irrigation systems that never got repaired as well.

Though I find it surprising pre-modern agriculture can have a noticeable impact on the climate like that.

It's possible that mortality rates of disease in the New World have been exaggerated...

It's also quite possible they've been under-estimated.

Pre-columbian population estimates are very hotly debated.  Pretty sure we've even discussed it here.

[Eddie Teach]

But if the scientists are right, we are running out of time.

And there is no reason to doubt they are incorrect.

Oh, good. Had me worried for a second.

[Razgovory]

It's also quite possible they've been under-estimated.

Pre-columbian population estimates are very hotly debated.  Pretty sure we've even discussed it here.

Probably not.  The numbers that get tossed about are always the very high estimates.  For instance numbers for Cahokia are always given the highest number possible,  40,000.  All other estimates are lower, some much, much lower like a 1/5th of that number.

[Maladict]

The political judgment is the key.  Hopefully most Americans are agreed that climate change is a pressing problem and that reasonable policies will be developed in response. 

Unfortunately the time for reasonable, measured responses has long passed, it's too late. All remaining reasonable responses will be increasingly extreme.

[Razgovory]

Does the sort of rage that Climate Change discussion appear in other countries or is this just an American thing.

[Zoupa]

Pretty universal in western countries I think. IMO.

[crazy canuck]

But if the scientists are right, we are running out of time.

And there is no reason to doubt they are incorrect.

Oh, good. Had me worried for a second.

Doh!

The political judgment is the key.  Hopefully most Americans are agreed that climate change is a pressing problem and that reasonable policies will be developed in response. 

Unfortunately the time for reasonable, measured responses has long passed, it's too late. All remaining reasonable responses will be increasingly extreme.

I am not sure where we are on that continuum but I agree the time we have to implement public policy measures that are less extreme is fast coming to an end.

[fromtia]

Yeah,gotta agree. It makes an issue that should be a-political explicitly political.

I'm not really sure what you meant here. I agree that it ought to be sort of an apolitical problem, and I also agree that the AOC "Green New Deal" seems to have everything and a kitchen sink and a hat for everyone in it which may be muddying the waters a bit, a bit "wooly" from a policy perspective as they say in the old country.

I think its great though that shes pushing hard on the issue, and hopefully dragging the Democratic leadership with her to a more aggressive posture. I think having another round of tepid committees produce some really anemic lobbyist friendly stuff a couple of years down the road isn't doing anything at all really. Just more of the same. I think that's where Pelosi is.

But climate change and how we are going to respond is intensely political already, and it was made that way by conservative media and the Republican party. They aren't going to change their minds anytime soon, and apparently the clock has been running against us for quite some time. I think if we continue to do nothing and wait for conservatives to come around or capitalism to save us then it's going to be a miserable future. I think it might be better to just try to press on without them.

What's sort of fascinating to me is how Climate change denial became such a central policy plank for conservatives. It's really odd in some respects. Why isn't clean air and the enviroment a conservative platform? Solar power ? There's no really compelling reason why they shouldn't be.

[fromtia]

I'd just like to throw this question out to the Languish-verse; What can be done about climate change? What ought be our best approach and what are the possible approaches? In terms of politics and engineering and so forth.

[Valmy]

I'd just like to throw this question out to the Languish-verse; What can be done about climate change? What ought be our best approach and what are the possible approaches? In terms of politics and engineering and so forth.

Energy storage and new emissionless energy technology. Battery technology is the most important in the short term. Natural Gas is the stopgap. Coal and other dirty energy sources need to be stopped entirely. Only electric vehicles should be legal to produce as soon as is feasible.

And after all that we probably need to increase minimum energy efficiency standards on new buildings and appliances.

Carbon capture technology will need to be developed to offset any emissions we just cannot eliminate.

[mongers]

I'd just like to throw this question out to the Languish-verse; What can be done about climate change? What ought be our best approach and what are the possible approaches? In terms of politics and engineering and so forth.

Energy storage and new emissionless energy technology. Battery technology is the most important in the short term. Natural Gas is the stopgap. Coal and other dirty energy sources need to be stopped entirely. Only electric vehicles should be legal to produce as soon as is feasible.

And after all that we probably need to increase minimum energy efficiency standards on new buildings and appliances.

Carbon capture technology will need to be developed to offset any emissions we just cannot eliminate.

All well and good but what's the answer to the ever expanding burn off of kerosene in the stratosphere? 

[Habbaku]

I'd just like to throw this question out to the Languish-verse; What can be done about climate change? What ought be our best approach and what are the possible approaches? In terms of politics and engineering and so forth.

Political elimination of certain topics. IE, making it as palatable to be a climate change-denier as it is to be in favor of, say, slavery.

[mongers]

Yeah,gotta agree. It makes an issue that should be a-political explicitly political.

.....
What's sort of fascinating to me is how Climate change denial became such a central policy plank for conservatives. It's really odd in some respects. Why isn't clean air and the enviroment a conservative platform? Solar power ? There's no really compelling reason why they shouldn't be.
....

They don't want to be held responsible for the consequences of their actions, it's free to do what they want, when and where they want without censure or moderation.