Dept of Education declares that school must allow boy to shower with girls

[crazy canuck]

CC presumes a result he doesn't like is due to bias.  There is a view point that the job of science is bring bring equity and goodness to mankind and is essentially "progressive".  I don't take this view.  I see science as providing facts.  Some facts may not be want we want to know.  Some facts could be dangerous.  What if someone were to demonstrate scientifically that one ethnic group has a stronger tendency toward violence then others.  Or that people who are decended from one place are statistically more likely to be less intelligent then average?  How would people react to this information?  How would governments or employers?  We stopped racial sciences after WWII not because there was some landmark study that deduced that all people are equal and nothing can prove otherwise.  We stopped because work in that area can be dangerous.  Sometimes its better not to know.

Actually the point I am making is that decisions based on prevailing societal norms should not be confused with judgments based on science.

[Valmy]

Actually the point I am making is that decisions based on prevailing societal norms should not be confused with judgments based on science.

I don't think the prevailing social norms had anything to do with the reclassification of Pluto.  So it was an odd thing to post as an explanation for what The Brain was saying and think we would all get that.

[crazy canuck]

I will observe that deciding if something is an illness or not is about as much about science as deciding if Pluto is a planet or not.

What is it about then?

Rather arbitrary categorization based on the biases of the group doing the categorizing.

You make the simple act of classifying items based on similar characteristics sound so sinister. What kind of insidious bias made people group dogs and wolves as related animals?

Did I?  Do you think being critical of how a particular classification is made means that one is necessarily critical of all classifications?

[Valmy]

Did I?  Do you think being critical of how a particular classification is made means that one is necessarily critical of all classifications?

Not necessarily. Just that it sounded like that was what you were doing.

[crazy canuck]

Did I?  Do you think being critical of how a particular classification is made means that one is necessarily critical of all classifications?

Not necessarily. Just that it sounded like that was what you were doing.

You need to get your ears checked. 

[Valmy]

Did I?  Do you think being critical of how a particular classification is made means that one is necessarily critical of all classifications?

Not necessarily. Just that it sounded like that was what you were doing.

You need to get your ears checked. 

If you say that the classification of Pluto was done due to biased social norms then what am I to think? You were not very clear at all.

[crazy canuck]

Did I?  Do you think being critical of how a particular classification is made means that one is necessarily critical of all classifications?

Not necessarily. Just that it sounded like that was what you were doing.

You need to get your ears checked. 

If you say that the classification of Pluto was done due to biased social norms then what am I to think? You were not very clear at all.

And since I didn't say that you need not worry yourself.  I was comparing arbitrary decisions which were of course made for different reasons but with the appearance of a scientific judgment.

[Valmy]

And since I didn't say that you need not worry yourself.

Oh yes you did.

I was comparing arbitrary decisions which were of course made for different reasons but with the appearance of a scientific judgment.

And you just did it again. The "appearance of scientific judgment"? How tinfoil-y.

[crazy canuck]

Wow

[grumbler]

The classification of Pluto as a planet was not an "arbitrary decision" at all, despite what the scientific ignoramuses think about it.  It was a decision debated at the time of Pluto's discovery, and frequently since.  Pluto was not reclassified based on another arbitrary decision, nor on some change in social norms, but due to the accumulation of additional scientific data about other planet-like bodies the size of Pluto, which require the creation of the dwarf planet classification, and the completely non-arbitrary decision to include Pluto in this class.

I'm not sure why the whole "Pluto is/isn't a planet" issue is so attractive to the il-informed as an example of something-or-other anti-scientific, but i hope that the currently-ignorant on this forum, at least, are now educated past the point where they will commit that fallacy again.

[The Brain]

The classification of Pluto as a planet was not an "arbitrary decision" at all, despite what the scientific ignoramuses think about it.  It was a decision debated at the time of Pluto's discovery, and frequently since.  Pluto was not reclassified based on another arbitrary decision, nor on some change in social norms, but due to the accumulation of additional scientific data about other planet-like bodies the size of Pluto, which require the creation of the dwarf planet classification, and the completely non-arbitrary decision to include Pluto in this class.

I'm not sure why the whole "Pluto is/isn't a planet" issue is so attractive to the il-informed as an example of something-or-other anti-scientific, but i hope that the currently-ignorant on this forum, at least, are now educated past the point where they will commit that fallacy again.

[crazy canuck]

The classification of Pluto as a planet was not an "arbitrary decision" at all, despite what the scientific ignoramuses think about it.  It was a decision debated at the time of Pluto's discovery, and frequently since.  Pluto was not reclassified based on another arbitrary decision, nor on some change in social norms, but due to the accumulation of additional scientific data about other planet-like bodies the size of Pluto, which require the creation of the dwarf planet classification, and the completely non-arbitrary decision to include Pluto in this class.

I'm not sure why the whole "Pluto is/isn't a planet" issue is so attractive to the il-informed as an example of something-or-other anti-scientific, but i hope that the currently-ignorant on this forum, at least, are now educated past the point where they will commit that fallacy again.

Actually, the decision was made after a vote of iirc three options.  Expand the number of planets to include Pluto and other bodies which were discovered to have a greater size, keep the number of planets the same and exclude the larger bodies on some other basis, or drop Pluto.  The vote was not unanimous and continues to be controversial to this day.  There was nothing "scientific" about the decision other than having found larger bodies.  The decision was an arbitrary decision based on what the majority of the people who had a vote decided would be the best way to deal with the issue.  If Pluto had a better PR team the result would likely have been different.  I truly hope I have allowed the currently ignorant to have some relief from their present circumstances.

[Martinus]

That was very insightful Marty.

That's probably why it was ignored in favour of a Pluto hijack.

[crazy canuck]

That was very insightful Marty.

That's probably why it was ignored in favour of a Pluto hijack.

Yeah. 

I did read your post and I think it was very good.

[DGuller]

Actually, the decision was made after a vote of iirc three options.  Expand the number of planets to include Pluto and other bodies which were discovered to have a greater size, keep the number of planets the same and exclude the larger bodies on some other basis, or drop Pluto.  The vote was not unanimous and continues to be controversial to this day.  There was nothing "scientific" about the decision other than having found larger bodies.  The decision was an arbitrary decision based on what the majority of the people who had a vote decided would be the best way to deal with the issue.  If Pluto had a better PR team the result would likely have been different.  I truly hope I have allowed the currently ignorant to have some relief from their present circumstances.

Oh no you didn't?!