The Off Topic Topic

[Admiral Yi]

Tamas is saying it's stupid.  It can't be reasonably inferred.  The probability of it being true approaches zero.

[grumbler]

You skipped my last sentence there.

To say outright that the UK is doing this is dumb. To say outright that the UK isn't doing this is also dumb. Its unknown. For sure it doesn't look good though I do hope my interpretation turns out to be the right one (we should know in 80 years maybe. If anyone cares then).

The burden of proof lies on the one making the claim.  There are an infinite number of claims that could be made wherein  there is no way of telling the truth.  Your argument here is as true of the Jewish Space Laser claims of Marjorie Taylor Greene as it is the claims that the British are helping the Israelis commit genocide.

[Josquius]

You skipped my last sentence there.

To say outright that the UK is doing this is dumb. To say outright that the UK isn't doing this is also dumb. Its unknown. For sure it doesn't look good though I do hope my interpretation turns out to be the right one (we should know in 80 years maybe. If anyone cares then).

The burden of proof lies on the one making the claim.  There are an infinite number of claims that could be made wherein  there is no way of telling the truth.  Your argument here is as true of the Jewish Space Laser claims of Marjorie Taylor Greene as it is the claims that the British are helping the Israelis commit genocide.

No. The world does not work in such binaries.
The UK is helping Israel do bad shit (FYI it says war crimes, not genocide)- well, Israel almost certainly has been doing bad shit and the UK is running flights over Gaza which the Israelis aren't complaining about....so there is a reasonable suspicion there.
Jewish Space Lasers controlling the weather....well, that just goes against the laws of physics as we know them. Obvious nonsense that doesn't need even thinking about.

[Tamas]

It's still not a fact. The guerilla "advert" claims it as a fact. A vast majority of commenters and up/down-voters accept it as a fact because somebody put a sticker on a subway car and are upset by the "revelation". A minority of commenters voiced either indifference or support of the sticker's claim but did not voice doubt over its authenticity. Only a tiny minority of comments raised suspicion that PERHAPS this claim is not true. THIS was the point of me posting this. I find it highly unlikely that the UK would be spending effort and money to conduct air recon to support what is essentially a counter-insurgency operation in terms of scale and weapon asymmetry involved. I cannot declare it IMPOSSIBLE but not to have serious doubts over such a claim stickered on a side of a subway car borders on unhinged.

[Josquius]

The UK absolutely was running recon flights over Gaza.

As said to what end I don't know. You're right that it seems weird there'd be seen as any need to do it. But it was happening.

This says the claimed reason is to help locate hostages- there were some with British citizenship so it makes sense.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/raf-flies-250-surveillance-flights-near-gaza-in-six-months/

In December 2023, the Ministry of Defence outlined the purpose of these missions following the terrorist attacks against Israel on October 7, 2023. The official statement read:

"Since the terrorist attacks against Israel of 7 October 2023, the UK government has been working with partners across the region to secure the release of hostages, including British nationals, who have been kidnapped. The safety of British nationals is our utmost priority. In support of the ongoing hostage rescue activity, the UK Ministry of Defence will conduct surveillance flights over the Eastern Mediterranean, including operating in airspace over Israel and near Gaza.

Surveillance aircraft will be unarmed, do not have a combat role, and will be tasked solely to locate hostages. Only information relating to hostage rescue will be passed to the relevant authorities responsible for hostage rescue."

[Grey Fox]

The UK absolutely was running recon flights over Gaza.

As said to what end I don't know.

Grumbler is telling you this is where you should stop thinking about it. You keep arguing something else.

[garbon]

How did I miss this?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/mississippi-lawmaker-introduces-contraception-begins-erection-act-rcna188938

Mississippi lawmaker introduces 'Contraception Begins at Erection Act'
The bill, which is unlikely to pass, would make it unlawful for "a person to discharge genetic material without the intent to fertilize an embryo."

Mississippi state Sen. Bradford Blackmon, a Democrat, introduced a bill this week that would seemingly ban men from masturbating or engaging in other sexual acts when they have no "intent to fertilize an embryo."

The bill, titled the "Contraception Begins at Erection Act," would make it unlawful for "a person to discharge genetic material without the intent to fertilize an embryo." It includes exceptions for sperm donation and using contraception to prevent fertilization.

[Barrister]

How did I miss this?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/mississippi-lawmaker-introduces-contraception-begins-erection-act-rcna188938

Mississippi lawmaker introduces 'Contraception Begins at Erection Act'
The bill, which is unlikely to pass, would make it unlawful for "a person to discharge genetic material without the intent to fertilize an embryo."

Mississippi state Sen. Bradford Blackmon, a Democrat, introduced a bill this week that would seemingly ban men from masturbating or engaging in other sexual acts when they have no "intent to fertilize an embryo."

The bill, titled the "Contraception Begins at Erection Act," would make it unlawful for "a person to discharge genetic material without the intent to fertilize an embryo." It includes exceptions for sperm donation and using contraception to prevent fertilization.

Surely this must be a troll bill?

From the article:

"All across the country, especially here in Mississippi, the vast majority of bills relating to contraception and/or abortion focus on the woman's role when men are fifty percent of the equation," he wrote. "This bill highlights that fact and brings the man's role into the conversation. People can get up in arms and call it absurd but I can't say that bothers me."

Allrighty then.  Carry on.

[crazy canuck]

Every sperm is sacred

[Admiral Yi]

The UK is helping Israel do bad shit (FYI it says war crimes, not genocide)- well, Israel almost certainly has been doing bad shit and the UK is running flights over Gaza which the Israelis aren't complaining about....so there is a reasonable suspicion there.

There is nonsensical suspicion there.  There is no way that being discovered aiding and abetting Israeli war crimes would work to the UK's advantage.  Most importantly, referring to Tamas' excellent point, superior intelligence does not improve one's ability to commit war crimes.

[Josquius]

Grumbler is telling you this is where you should stop thinking about it. You keep arguing something else.

One thing not being proven doesn't mean the opposite is automatically true.
The claim is not a proven fact but there's enough about it that its a valid suspicion.

The UK is helping Israel do bad shit (FYI it says war crimes, not genocide)- well, Israel almost certainly has been doing bad shit and the UK is running flights over Gaza which the Israelis aren't complaining about....so there is a reasonable suspicion there.

There is nonsensical suspicion there.  There is no way that being discovered aiding and abetting Israeli war crimes would work to the UK's advantage.  Most importantly, referring to Tamas' excellent point, superior intelligence does not improve one's ability to commit war crimes.

The UK and Israel are allies. Supporting your allies absolutely is in the UK's interests. Then there's the fact some of the hostages were British.
Does Israel need the help? I'd say no. Not really. Same goes for most aid their way. They've more than enough of their own resources. But the help was still given.
Its a perfectly valid possibility that the UK helped Israeli war crimes that can't be just dismissed as nonsense. Not at all on the same level as crazy anti-semitic conspiracy theories.

[Grey Fox]

Grumbler is telling you this is where you should stop thinking about it. You keep arguing something else.

One thing not being proven doesn't mean the opposite is automatically true.
The claim is not a proven fact but there's enough about it that its a valid suspicion.

Sure, maybe. Argue that then!

[crazy canuck]

Grumbler is telling you this is where you should stop thinking about it. You keep arguing something else.

One thing not being proven doesn't mean the opposite is automatically true.
The claim is not a proven fact but there's enough about it that its a valid suspicion.

The UK is helping Israel do bad shit (FYI it says war crimes, not genocide)- well, Israel almost certainly has been doing bad shit and the UK is running flights over Gaza which the Israelis aren't complaining about....so there is a reasonable suspicion there.

There is nonsensical suspicion there.  There is no way that being discovered aiding and abetting Israeli war crimes would work to the UK's advantage.  Most importantly, referring to Tamas' excellent point, superior intelligence does not improve one's ability to commit war crimes.

The UK and Israel are allies. Supporting your allies absolutely is in the UK's interests. Then there's the fact some of the hostages were British.
Does Israel need the help? I'd say no. Not really. Same goes for most aid their way. They've more than enough of their own resources. But the help was still given.
Its a perfectly valid possibility that the UK helped Israeli war crimes that can't be just dismissed as nonsense. Not at all on the same level as crazy anti-semitic conspiracy theories.

The stated reason for the flights was to assist in tracking the location of the hostages taken by Hamas. Your allegations require some link or causality between providing that information to Israel and war crimes.

Are you able to provide such a link? I doubt it. I would've thought that if there was such a link and then the international criminal court would also have issued warrants for the arrest of the UK officials involved.

[Josquius]

The stated reason for the flights was to assist in tracking the location of the hostages taken by Hamas. Your allegations require some link or causality between providing that information to Israel and war crimes.

Are you able to provide such a link? I doubt it. I would've thought that if there was such a link and then the international criminal court would also have issued warrants for the arrest of the UK officials involved.

Are you able to prove there wasn't such a link?
Simple fact is, nobody knows what intelligence they actually passed Israel's way. As said in my first post it could well be the complete opposite and they were actively working to stop Israel from killing civilians. But the possibility British planes played a role in some of the myriad of dodginess that went down can't be just dismissed.
Some people, like those with the metro ad I presume, find the very idea that the UK military is associated in such a way there could even be this question as worthy of criticism.
If the ICC comes down against Israel then I would hope there's an investigation on the UK end too.

Grumbler is telling you this is where you should stop thinking about it. You keep arguing something else.

One thing not being proven doesn't mean the opposite is automatically true.
The claim is not a proven fact but there's enough about it that its a valid suspicion.

Sure, maybe. Argue that then!

I am. Thats why I said that.

[crazy canuck]

You are asserting there is a link. I don't have to prove the negative.

Basic logic doesn't work that way.