The Off Topic Topic

[Habbaku]

"Paki" is equivalent to "Jap" over there, then?

[Caliga]

Yep, pretty much.

[Sheilbh]

There are so many *-words these days, I don't even know what you're talking about.

There's the n-word, of course.  I think there's the c-word.  I ran into a reference to the r-word the other day in talking about people with intellectual development delays.  I think there's the f-word when talking about gays.

But what the heck is the p-word?

As an aside I am uncomfortable with the idea that a word is so harmful it can't even be typed (in a context where it's just being described, not used as a slur), but apparently that's the world we live in.

It's a slur for Asians in the UK and I don't think there's been any re-claiming. And I'm very uncomfortable with it because it actually feels more real to me than some of the racial slurs I'm aware of in the US which weren't ever really used here, this one was used and viciously for a very long time. This is probably the most common racial slur in the UK.

As a Brit I've no issue with dropping the c-bomb. We love that word in a way that North Americans do not

I treat typing here like I would speaking I suppose and I wouldn't say this word or the n-word even in description. It's something I'd feel incredibly uncomfortable saying.

Sorry, I was being a bit unclear there. I mean that there is no one (including good ol' Franz) who actively claims the title. He is obviously the correct one in terms of succession, but I'm not sure I'd define him as a "claimant" without at least him stating--a la Charles I RE: France--that he holds the title by right.

Oh okay - sorry misunderstood. That is disappointing. I always assumed the Stuart line would always be the last royal house in Europe to give up their claims

[garbon]

Unfortunately, there are currently no Jacobite claimants as none of them have the courage of the Mad Italian. 

According to Wikipedia the current claimant is Franz, Duke of Bavaria

Dude marries a black lady & he still hasn't "accounted for that stuff".

Yeah - from memory I think he was on tape calling someone the P-word (I am very uncomfortable saying it) and other slurs. I think he should address that and not just be given a free-pass because, now it affects his loved ones, he's realised racism is bad.

But didn't he apologize for those? A quick search says that he did. What would it advance if he apologizes for them once again, now some 11-16 years later?

[The Larch]

"Paki" in some parts of Spain (Catalonia mostly, but cel can correct me if I'm wrong) refers mostly to a shop that is open late at night, which tend to be run by Pakistani or other South Asian inmigrant. 

[Habbaku]

Oh okay - sorry misunderstood. That is disappointing. I always assumed the Stuart line would always be the last royal house in Europe to give up their claims

It's one of those really weird situations where the supporters are far more into the cause than the supported. 

I believe the same holds for most of the French royalists as well, whether Bonapartists or Legitimists.

[Josquius]

The p word is far worse than n%*ger. You'll never hear Asian hoodies using it amongst themselves.

And ja. In French too cornershops are casually called Paquis.

In the UK Chinese take aways get called chinkies and theres a clear mental distinction made here that its OK as its the shop/food rather than a person.

[Sheilbh]

The tabloids in the UK did seem, uhm, peculiar in how they covered Meghan compared to other royals.

Ish. I think the coverage was racist and worse for Meghan because of race, but I think it's wrong to pretend that what other people experience is just positive coverage.

On the other hand - the British tabloids were not exactly kind to Princess Diana. They're not kind to anyone. They have now become pro-Camilla but were incredibly hostile to her (to the extent that she was, hilariously pelted and chased out of a supermarket in the 90s). Similarly some of the coverage to Kate Middleton (before she became a mum) was very unsympathetic - there was "Waity Katy", they published pictures of her in lingerie in a student fashion show at uni, I remember multiple articles about whether Kate or Pippa had the best arse, her family were depicted as grubby social climbers with no class, they dug up stories about her estranged uncle committing domestic violence and there were pictures of her sunbathing on a topless beach. And now she's been ironed into simple royal domestic motherhood, they're broadly generous and well-managed. But the comparison with those Meghan stories should, I think, be the negative stuff Kate Middleton had to deal with before she started getting positive coverage now - and God knows what deal with the devil you have to do to get positive coverage.

I think the British tabloids are horrendous for anyone - especially women - in the public eye. You know we are only two years from Caroline Flack committing suicide while she was in the middle of a media storm following domestic abuse allegations (against her). You can be a random member of the public who accidentally gets caught up in a media storm and the tabloids will destroy you for entertainment. I remember Chuka Umuna thinking about running for Labour leader and dropping out because the tabloids had already doorstopped his girlfriend, her family and his grandmother and were clearly digging for dirt. We had the scandals and a public inquiry into phone hacking - and the damages from that are still being paid out and settled - but none of the major recommendations have been implemented and I don't think the tabloids are behaving any better.

You know we have Piers Morgan passing judgement on why the press aren't racist in their treatment of Meghan. He's a man who was fired as editor of the Daily Mirror for publishing fabricated photos of British troops pissing on Iraqi prisoners - in a civilised country he wouldn't work again in the media. Here he has a breakfast show and a weekly column in a tabloid.

[Barrister]

It's a slur for Asians in the UK and I don't think there's been any re-claiming. And I'm very uncomfortable with it because it actually feels more real to me than some of the racial slurs I'm aware of in the US which weren't ever really used here, this one was used and viciously for a very long time. This is probably the most common racial slur in the UK.

As a Brit I've no issue with dropping the c-bomb. We love that word in a way that North Americans do not

I treat typing here like I would speaking I suppose and I wouldn't say this word or the n-word even in description. It's something I'd feel incredibly uncomfortable saying.

How bizarre.  Like Jacob the best I could even think of was pussy, but I don't think that's much of a slur.

Paki, much like Jap, is definitely a pejorative, but not with anywhere near the social taboo like the n-word.

Cunt is definitely not a word that should be thrown around lightly.

[Josquius]

I do wonder how things would be if Megan was just white rather than mixed race.... And how much worse if she was black.
There is racism in there for sure but I suspect a lot of it is based on her being American.
Being an actress doubtless doesn't do her favours either. If she was just a regular American I do wonder.

[Grey Fox]

I have a high school friend that had the nick name Paki. He's from Lebanon & not that really pakistani looking.

But for suburban Montreal in the late 90s, we had no experience with non-black & white immigration.

[garbon]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/08/meghan-has-been-mistreated-for-years-but-her-interview-still-shocked-me

I cannot believe that we are still having this debate about whether the way that Meghan has been treated is racist. It is misogynoir, pure and simple. Look at the media coverage of her. The Daily Mail said that she was "(almost) straight outta Compton". A BBC broadcaster tweeted a picture of Archie as a chimpanzee (for which he was fired). That tells you what kind of society we live in.

Listening to Meghan talk about how she was suicidal when pregnant with Archie, what was so upsetting was seeing how the institution that had the ability to protect her did nothing. They allowed the media to assassinate her character and they stayed silent. Compare the treatment of Meghan and Prince Andrew, who was accused of having sex with a teenaged trafficking victim – which he denies – and seems to gets constant support from the palace. Meghan may have been a "princess", but there is no point living in a palace if you feel like a prisoner. Let's not pretend rich people don't also kill themselves or experience depression.

[celedhring]

"Paki" in some parts of Spain (Catalonia mostly, but cel can correct me if I'm wrong) refers mostly to a shop that is open late at night, which tend to be run by Pakistani or other South Asian inmigrant. 

Yeah we use that lots over here, and indeed it's used to refer to the store and not the people. I guess it's still racist-y.

[Sheilbh]

How bizarre.  Like Jacob the best I could even think of was pussy, but I don't think that's much of a slur.

Paki, much like Jap, is definitely a pejorative, but not with anywhere near the social taboo like the n-word.

Cunt is definitely not a word that should be thrown around lightly.

I think context matters - that was the slur of the far-right in the UK. They used to go P-bashing like they'd go queer-bashing. And from what I am aware there has been no movement to reclaim it as a word.

In part that's probably just because British Asians are the largest minority group in the UK so it sort of makes sense that that's who was targeted and why those words carry particular meaning here.

There was a piece about it last year:
https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/politics/article/britain-racism-paki-word

[The Larch]

"Paki" in some parts of Spain (Catalonia mostly, but cel can correct me if I'm wrong) refers mostly to a shop that is open late at night, which tend to be run by Pakistani or other South Asian inmigrant. 

Yeah we use that lots over here, and indeed it's used to refer to the store and not the people. I guess it's still racist-y.

In contrast, in Madrid, where these shops tend to be run by Chinese people, they tend to be called "chinos", which is also used for Chinese restaurants.