The Off Topic Topic

[Josquius]

A new #thedress, is this jacket blue and white or black and brown. It's clearly blue and white so I don't see this taking off into virality like the dress.

Blue. Possibly greenish.


In other news, here's a revelation for you all

[Barrister]

A new #thedress, is this jacket blue and white or black and brown. It's clearly blue and white so I don't see this taking off into virality like the dress.

blueish/turquoise and white.

[DGuller]

Regardless of what color it is, you have to admit that it's a damn good looking tracksuit. 

[Admiral Yi]

  Weddings and funerals tracksuit.

[Syt]

Apparently Switzerland is holding a vote today that would change their immigration law such that foreigners who are convicted in court for crimes (or twice for felonies like speeding, insulting a public official, etc.) will automatically deported, with no recourse or possibility for judges to be lenient. Tax evasion, oddly, is not on the list of possible deportation reasons. The law would affect all foreigners (including EU foreigners), regardless of how long they have lived in Switzerland, or whether or not they have family or jobs there. Finally, it would be enshrined in the constitution which means it wouldn't go through parliament.

Originally, there was broad support for this change, but it seems in recent weeks, after broad protests against the initiative, public opinion has changed towards opposing it.

I'm not generally against deportation of criminals, but IMHO it would always have to be a measured decision - how integrated is the foreigner in the country, how serious is the crime, is there a history of crime, what's the situation in his home country etc. Kicking someone out who has lived in the country for decades and gets caught speeding twice seems *a little* over the top.

[Zanza]

It's usually a sign of a poorly made law if judges don't have a possibility to consider the circumstances.

[The Brain]

Swiss people are weird and the proposed change seems retarded in its details. However I am not convinced that how integrated the person is or what the situation in the home country is should have an impact on deportation. If deportation isn't part of the punishment for convictions (like jail or fines), but simply an effect of convictions, then it seems unsound to me to have different rules for different people.

[Syt]

Swiss people are weird and the proposed change seems retarded in its details. However I am not convinced that how integrated the person is or what the situation in the home country is should have an impact on deportation. If deportation isn't part of the punishment for convictions (like jail or fines), but simply an effect of convictions, then it seems unsound to me to have different rules for different people.

I think it's important to look at it to make sure the crime and punishment are proportionate. If the result is that someone who was born in a country but doesn't have the nationality, is married, and has a family, gets kicked out into a country where they've never lived gets kicked out for a small crime then it's rather disproportionate.

[The Brain]

Swiss people are weird and the proposed change seems retarded in its details. However I am not convinced that how integrated the person is or what the situation in the home country is should have an impact on deportation. If deportation isn't part of the punishment for convictions (like jail or fines), but simply an effect of convictions, then it seems unsound to me to have different rules for different people.

I think it's important to look at it to make sure the crime and punishment are proportionate. If the result is that someone who was born in a country but doesn't have the nationality, is married, and has a family, gets kicked out into a country where they've never lived gets kicked out for a small crime then it's rather disproportionate.

I think it's unsound to have crimes being punished differently for citizens and non-citizens. It makes sense to me to have deportation being just an effect of certain convictions and not part of the punishment.

[garbon]

Swiss people are weird and the proposed change seems retarded in its details. However I am not convinced that how integrated the person is or what the situation in the home country is should have an impact on deportation. If deportation isn't part of the punishment for convictions (like jail or fines), but simply an effect of convictions, then it seems unsound to me to have different rules for different people.

I think it's important to look at it to make sure the crime and punishment are proportionate. If the result is that someone who was born in a country but doesn't have the nationality, is married, and has a family, gets kicked out into a country where they've never lived gets kicked out for a small crime then it's rather disproportionate.

I think it's unsound to have crimes being punished differently for citizens and non-citizens. It makes sense to me to have deportation being just an effect of certain convictions and not part of the punishment.

Yeah...so it still is part of the punishment if it is something that will happen even if not a direct part of the sentencing.

[The Brain]

Swiss people are weird and the proposed change seems retarded in its details. However I am not convinced that how integrated the person is or what the situation in the home country is should have an impact on deportation. If deportation isn't part of the punishment for convictions (like jail or fines), but simply an effect of convictions, then it seems unsound to me to have different rules for different people.

I think it's important to look at it to make sure the crime and punishment are proportionate. If the result is that someone who was born in a country but doesn't have the nationality, is married, and has a family, gets kicked out into a country where they've never lived gets kicked out for a small crime then it's rather disproportionate.

I think it's unsound to have crimes being punished differently for citizens and non-citizens. It makes sense to me to have deportation being just an effect of certain convictions and not part of the punishment.

Yeah...so it still is part of the punishment if it is something that will happen even if not a direct part of the sentencing.

Elaborate.

[garbon]

Swiss people are weird and the proposed change seems retarded in its details. However I am not convinced that how integrated the person is or what the situation in the home country is should have an impact on deportation. If deportation isn't part of the punishment for convictions (like jail or fines), but simply an effect of convictions, then it seems unsound to me to have different rules for different people.

I think it's important to look at it to make sure the crime and punishment are proportionate. If the result is that someone who was born in a country but doesn't have the nationality, is married, and has a family, gets kicked out into a country where they've never lived gets kicked out for a small crime then it's rather disproportionate.

I think it's unsound to have crimes being punished differently for citizens and non-citizens. It makes sense to me to have deportation being just an effect of certain convictions and not part of the punishment.

Yeah...so it still is part of the punishment if it is something that will happen even if not a direct part of the sentencing.

Elaborate.

Because they end result is the same thing? I don't think any of the evil foreigners will feel less punished that their sentencing for their 'crime*' didn't include immediate deportation but by statute simply triggered a separate proceeding to deport them.

*I'm confused by the whole speeding bit.

[The Brain]

Swiss people are weird and the proposed change seems retarded in its details. However I am not convinced that how integrated the person is or what the situation in the home country is should have an impact on deportation. If deportation isn't part of the punishment for convictions (like jail or fines), but simply an effect of convictions, then it seems unsound to me to have different rules for different people.

I think it's important to look at it to make sure the crime and punishment are proportionate. If the result is that someone who was born in a country but doesn't have the nationality, is married, and has a family, gets kicked out into a country where they've never lived gets kicked out for a small crime then it's rather disproportionate.

I think it's unsound to have crimes being punished differently for citizens and non-citizens. It makes sense to me to have deportation being just an effect of certain convictions and not part of the punishment.

Yeah...so it still is part of the punishment if it is something that will happen even if not a direct part of the sentencing.

Elaborate.

Because they end result is the same thing? I don't think any of the evil foreigners will feel less punished that their sentencing for their 'crime*' didn't include immediate deportation but by statute simply triggered a separate proceeding to deport them.

*I'm confused by the whole speeding bit.

Lots of things can happen as a direct result of you being convicted of a crime, depending on the crime and on who you are. You can lose your professional license, you can lose security clearance, you can lose your job, you can lose the chance to adopt that kid you were adopting etc. And if you're a foreigner you could in this scenario be deported. Doesn't make those things part of the punishment.

[garbon]

I think you are making a distinction that has no real difference in meaning here for the punished. Additionally it tries to whitewash over this Swiss law which clearly sounds like punishment for foreigners.

BTW, many of your examples are things that wouldn't necessarily happen post conviction.

[The Brain]

I think you are making a distinction that has no real difference in meaning here for the punished. Additionally it tries to whitewash over this Swiss law which clearly sounds like punishment for foreigners.

Your thought is noted.

BTW, many of your examples are things that wouldn't necessarily happen post conviction.

Like I said.