Christie clarifies comments on measles vaccine, calls for ‘balance’

[DGuller]

Yeah, measles was so common that no one paid any attention to the thousands of deaths it caused every year.

The bigger problem is that the death rate was so low.  Thousands of deaths and cases of brain damage pales in comparison to hundreds of thousands sickened, so the vast majority of people who were alive pre-vaccination are much more likely to remember a complication-free period of sickness rather than one of the cases that led to brain damage or death.

I don't know.  Half a million people were dying each year of measles in the US alone, and nobody noticed?  Fatalities from automobile accidents were roughly 1/10th that in the late 60s/early 70s, and people definitely noticed.

Morbidity is not mortality.

[PRC]

The "being pure" concept is what's driving a lot of the anti-vaccine movement in North America.  That's why I think you see so many, sometimes rational, Whole Foods shopping, organic eating, exclusively breastfeeding and co-sleeping parents not buying into vaccines.  The diseases we vaccine for are far enough in the past for newer parents not to know the experience first hand and their natural purity mentality is strong enough to cause them to be stupid.

[MadImmortalMan]

Seriously, I want to know why Christie is going in to Number 10 while Governor of NJ. It's not constitutional for states to conduct their own diplomacy.

[Zanza]

I would be more interested why Cameron thinks it's a good idea to welcome him. Doesn't he have better things to do than meeting some provincial politician from another country?

[Fate]

Yeah, measles was so common that no one paid any attention to the thousands of deaths it caused every year.

The bigger problem is that the death rate was so low.  Thousands of deaths and cases of brain damage pales in comparison to hundreds of thousands sickened, so the vast majority of people who were alive pre-vaccination are much more likely to remember a complication-free period of sickness rather than one of the cases that led to brain damage or death.

I don't know.  Half a million people were dying each year of measles in the US alone, and nobody noticed?  Fatalities from automobile accidents were roughly 1/10th that in the late 60s/early 70s, and people definitely noticed.

In medicalese, we use the word mortality when referring to death. Morbidity just means symptoms/sequelae.

If you want to look at worldwide measles mortality though, you'll start seeing numbers like that. 2.3 million were estimated to die per year prior to 1980s when the MMR vaccine started to become more accessible to the third world. In 2013 there were 143k worldwide deaths from measles.

[celedhring]

Probably trite to point out, but it seems like folks with autistic kids are just indulging in some magical thinking to place blame somewhere.  It probably makes sense in their minds that "vaccines = autism," since autism generally manifests as a diagnosable condition after vaccination.  But at least I can sort of understand where they're coming from--they're crybabies, certainly, but in genuine pain.  How their contagion spread to people who aren't in a personal crisis is harder to comprehend.

Yeah, I can sorta get that. You look for irrational answers when you're put in such a hard situation. Is the "pure lifers" that really get on my tits.

[Eddie Teach]

Yeah, you got me. 

Don't worry, nobody else thinks of you as a New Yorker.

[grumbler]

Yeah, measles was so common that no one paid any attention to the thousands of deaths it caused every year.

The bigger problem is that the death rate was so low.  Thousands of deaths and cases of brain damage pales in comparison to hundreds of thousands sickened, so the vast majority of people who were alive pre-vaccination are much more likely to remember a complication-free period of sickness rather than one of the cases that led to brain damage or death.

Or, to put it more imply, measles was so common that no one paid any attention to the thousands of deaths it caused every year.

[grumbler]

  Then the US and British health officials must be extremely stupid, as they do not, in fact, immunize against smallpox except for people going to specific overseas destinations.

They must not have gotten the WHO memo that smallpox has been eradicated worldwide thanks to vaccination campaigns then. Nobody had to be vaccinated against smallpox anymore for decades and smallpox is the poster child of all vaccination efforts. 

The argument Seedy made was against the statement that "not every disease type is as great a public health threat as others," claiming that a selected efficacy listing disproved the statement.  I'd say his list proves nothing, and that smallpox is, indeed, "not  as great a public health threat" as, say, influenza.  If you want to dispute my argument, then feel free, but you cannot dispute my argument by stealing it.

[dps]

Seriously, I want to know why Christie is going in to Number 10 while Governor of NJ. It's not constitutional for states to conduct their own diplomacy.

AFAIK, every state has trade agencies and the like that try to drum up investment and such overseas, often working with foreign governments, not just private investors.  Not sure those have ever been challenged on constitutional grounds.

[Sheilbh]

I would be more interested why Cameron thinks it's a good idea to welcome him. Doesn't he have better things to do than meeting some provincial politician from another country?

Probably because he's a Presidential candidate from the Tories sort-of sister party, and probably the Republican Cameron would most support/get on with. I wonder if they met with Lynton Crosby Cameron's Australian election strategist. And PMs have met and welcomed Governors and Senators before.

Alternately Cameron's a closet Arsenal fan and they were watching Match of the Day together:

[Sheilbh]

Seriously, I want to know why Christie is going in to Number 10 while Governor of NJ. It's not constitutional for states to conduct their own diplomacy.

AFAIK, every state has trade agencies and the like that try to drum up investment and such overseas, often working with foreign governments, not just private investors.  Not sure those have ever been challenged on constitutional grounds.

Yeah and Bloomberg and Schwarzenegger and others have come over here to make political speeches. In comparison Christie's visit is low-key.

[celedhring]

We've had State governors coming to Spain, too. As Sheilbh says, those visits are usually part of trade/investment efforts. Obviously he's milking it with a view to running for POTUS, but it's not that out of the ordinary.

[CountDeMoney]

The argument Seedy made was against the statement that "not every disease type is as great a public health threat as others," claiming that a selected efficacy listing disproved the statement.  I'd say his list proves nothing, and that smallpox is, indeed, "not  as great a public health threat" as, say, influenza.  If you want to dispute my argument, then feel free, but you cannot dispute my argument by stealing it.

grumbler's still sore from his bubonic booster.

[Caliga]

AFAIK, every state has trade agencies and the like that try to drum up investment and such overseas, often working with foreign governments, not just private investors.  Not sure those have ever been challenged on constitutional grounds.

  This is how Mark Sanford managed to get South Carolina to fund his trips to Latin America so he could take his mistress to pound town.