Grand unified books thread

[The Minsky Moment]

Name and shame

David Graeber, world class in that department.

[Syt]

Finished the first two books of The Expanse (Leviathan Wakes, Caliban's War).

Really enjoyed them and will dive into book 3 straight away.

It was interesting to see the differences to the show. There's obvious things like the physical appearances of belters and inners not being as markedly different, changing some characters (e.g. Amos in the books is middle aged), or switching some plot details.

What I did not expect was that the TV show added more character drama and overall runtime. The first two books cover roughly the first two and a half seasons. The audio books run ca. 40 hours at 1x speed, while the show has 30 episodes covering that time span - a rather unusual relation; movies or TV shows tend to be noticeably shorter than books. I read my fair share of movie novelizations in the 80s when we didn't have a VCR, so a 2 hour movie would often have a 200-300 pages book which you would decidedly NOT read in 2 hours, let alone if you were to read it out loud like an audio book.

For the most part it's because the show doesn't limit itself to the viewpoint characters. The first book is entirely written from Holden's and Miller's perspectives. Book two has the viewpoints of Holden, Avasarala, Bobby, and Prax. In the TV show you get a wider view - e.g. the whole treason/mutiny plot between Nguyen and Souther, more drama in getting the Martians on board for the battle at Io, or more scenes with Earth government during the timeline of book 1, introducing Avasarala much earlier than in the novel (I loved her in the series, but I love her even more in the books, I think ). And they did other stuff, like greatly expanding the role of Cotyar, or adding the spy subplot with Elias Toufexis (who was in the running for the role of Amos, but they still wanted him on the show, so he got this role and later did mo-cap work).

Also, I didn't expect there to be more character drama in the show than in the books. E.g. at the start, there's a lot of uncertainty/friction between the crew of the Roci (Alex, Holden, Naomi, Amos) in the TV show that slowly develops into a "family" in later seasons. In the books that friction is almost completely absent and they all accept Holden as de facto captain from the get go. Or the subplot around Naomi not destroying the protomolecule on the show that didn't exist in the books (where Holden handed over the sample to Fred Jones freely). There's several such instances.

Weirdly, that makes some characters on the show a bit more complex than in the books; that said it might be because I watched the show first and it therefore forms my "baseline."

I've been listening to some of the podcasts of Wes Chatham (Amos) and Ty Franck (half of James A. Corey). These guys are lovely movie and sci-fi nerds. I knew the story grew out of an RPG setting that Ty Franck was running. What I didn't know was that it was one of those "play by post" things ca. 20 years ago that were popular on forums; essentially (and ideally) they would be cooperative writing projects. Hell, it existed in the EU2 AAR forums, in the form of the Free Company stories run by Lord Durham around the time Franck was running his campaign (the main characters on the show come from that game, and so do some of the early plots and events).

[mongers]

Finished the first two books of The Expanse (Leviathan Wakes, Caliban's War).
....
snip
....
I've been listening to some of the podcasts of Wes Chatham (Amos) and Ty Franck (half of James A. Corey). These guys are lovely movie and sci-fi nerds. I knew the story grew out of an RPG setting that Ty Franck was running. What I didn't know was that it was one of those "play by post" things ca. 20 years ago that were popular on forums; essentially (and ideally) they would be cooperative writing projects. Hell, it existed in the EU2 AAR forums, in the form of the Free Company stories run by Lord Durham around the time Franck was running his campaign (the main characters on the show come from that game, and so do some of the early plots and events).

Very interesting, Syt.

[Syt]

Almost half way through Book 3 of The Expanse.

Rather surprised how much the characters aboard the Behemoth have been shuffled around (esp. Drummer, Ashford, Samara Rosenberg, Michion Pa and Bull. I really liked Klaes Ashford in the TV show (a grizzled old pirate with the wisdom of age, trying to better himself and find a place in the new political realities), so was a bit sad to see him being much less awesome in the book so far

I also realize that I still don't care much for the Cassandra revenge plot (in the show, they redeem her character in later seasons), though the book does give better inside into her personality, which I appreciate.

[Maladict]

Started Mark Mazower's new book on the Greek Revolution. It's pretty good and interesting so far.

[Sheilbh]

Started Mark Mazower's new book on the Greek Revolution. It's pretty good and interesting so far.

I've got that on my list so be interested in your take.

[Maladict]

Started Mark Mazower's new book on the Greek Revolution. It's pretty good and interesting so far.

I've got that on my list so be interested in your take.

Mazower has enough credit with me to insta-buy if the subject is interesting. The Salonica book is fantastic.

So if you're interested in the topic I'd say go for it, there's not much of an alternative anyway afaik. 

The one thing lacking so far is the Ottoman perspective, but it's early days.

[The Brain]

Finished The First World War and the End of the Habsburg Monarchy, by Rauchensteiner. It tells the story of the state of Austria-Hungary before and during WW1. At 1,000+ pages it manages to deal in some detail with many aspects of this. For clarity, it is NOT a social history, and it is NOT a collection of statistics (even if there are many numbers given in the text, there are very few big tables of data), and it is NOT a detailed description of weapon systems and similar. I'd recommend it to anyone with a serious interest in WW1 or Austria-Hungary.

There are almost no maps, which doesn't matter to me personally since I normally don't check maps while reading military history, and these days of course the internet exists. But I understand that some people feel differently.

Many quotes from sources that are originally in English are given in German, which is a bit jarring. Stuff like J.F.C. Fuller books, articles in US newspapers by Teddy Roosevelt, and letters to Washington from the US ambassador in Vienna jump off the page in German. I suppose the translator marked these with "don't translate; use original English source" and then nothing happened before it went to print.

[viper37]

Viking Blood and Blade Saga

Another series about Vikings.  This time, the author has done some homework.

There are four books in the series.  It ain't a masterpiece like the Anglo Saxon Chronicles the author compares it too, but it's a quite enjoyable read.

The year 865.  Legendary Viking Ragnar Lothbrook has been killed by Aella and his sons have vowed revenge on England.  A young Viking warrior by the given name of Hundr, a dog's name in old norse arrives from the East to seek a name from himself.

It's historical fiction.  The fictional hero crosses path with Ivar the Boneless, Bjorn Ironside and other famous Viking warriors.  The culture is appropriately represented, as far as I know, with maybe a few exceptions that can be forgiven.  You get a real feeling that Vikings have more than one god and they have an entire warrior caste dedicated to plundering and warfare, honoring their gods this way.

I highly recommend this series for casual reading.

[Jacob]

Started reading God's Shadow: Sultan Selim, His Ottoman Empire, and the Making of the Modern World by Alan Mikhail.

I haven't read much on the topic, and the first few chapters were pretty interesting. But then Mikhail devotes an entire chapter (or more) to how Christopher Columbus was motivated by anti-Muslim sentiment, and that this anti-Muslim sentiment provided the framework for how the West interacted with the peoples of the New World and outside of Europe in general.

It's an interesting perspective, but in my reading Mikhail doesn't do much to persuade the reader - he merely states it as a fact and muses a bit about it. So I put the book down.

[Habbaku]

I think you made the correct decision. When it came out, I was lured in by the title, but held off purchase after reading a pretty damning review of it:

https://oajournals.fupress.net/index.php/cromohs/debate

[Grey Fox]

Finished the first two books of The Expanse (Leviathan Wakes, Caliban's War).

Really enjoyed them and will dive into book 3 straight away.

It was interesting to see the differences to the show. There's obvious things like the physical appearances of belters and inners not being as markedly different, changing some characters (e.g. Amos in the books is middle aged), or switching some plot details.

What I did not expect was that the TV show added more character drama and overall runtime. The first two books cover roughly the first two and a half seasons. The audio books run ca. 40 hours at 1x speed, while the show has 30 episodes covering that time span - a rather unusual relation; movies or TV shows tend to be noticeably shorter than books. I read my fair share of movie novelizations in the 80s when we didn't have a VCR, so a 2 hour movie would often have a 200-300 pages book which you would decidedly NOT read in 2 hours, let alone if you were to read it out loud like an audio book.

For the most part it's because the show doesn't limit itself to the viewpoint characters. The first book is entirely written from Holden's and Miller's perspectives. Book two has the viewpoints of Holden, Avasarala, Bobby, and Prax. In the TV show you get a wider view - e.g. the whole treason/mutiny plot between Nguyen and Souther, more drama in getting the Martians on board for the battle at Io, or more scenes with Earth government during the timeline of book 1, introducing Avasarala much earlier than in the novel (I loved her in the series, but I love her even more in the books, I think ). And they did other stuff, like greatly expanding the role of Cotyar, or adding the spy subplot with Elias Toufexis (who was in the running for the role of Amos, but they still wanted him on the show, so he got this role and later did mo-cap work).

Also, I didn't expect there to be more character drama in the show than in the books. E.g. at the start, there's a lot of uncertainty/friction between the crew of the Roci (Alex, Holden, Naomi, Amos) in the TV show that slowly develops into a "family" in later seasons. In the books that friction is almost completely absent and they all accept Holden as de facto captain from the get go. Or the subplot around Naomi not destroying the protomolecule on the show that didn't exist in the books (where Holden handed over the sample to Fred Jones freely). There's several such instances.

Weirdly, that makes some characters on the show a bit more complex than in the books; that said it might be because I watched the show first and it therefore forms my "baseline."

I've been listening to some of the podcasts of Wes Chatham (Amos) and Ty Franck (half of James A. Corey). These guys are lovely movie and sci-fi nerds. I knew the story grew out of an RPG setting that Ty Franck was running. What I didn't know was that it was one of those "play by post" things ca. 20 years ago that were popular on forums; essentially (and ideally) they would be cooperative writing projects. Hell, it existed in the EU2 AAR forums, in the form of the Free Company stories run by Lord Durham around the time Franck was running his campaign (the main characters on the show come from that game, and so do some of the early plots and events).

Amos in the show is middle aged. Wes Chatham is 43 years old.

[Admiral Yi]

I haven't read much on the topic, and the first few chapters were pretty interesting. But then Mikhail devotes an entire chapter (or more) to how Christopher Columbus was motivated by anti-Muslim sentiment, and that this anti-Muslim sentiment provided the framework for how the West interacted with the peoples of the New World and outside of Europe in general.

Can you elaborate a bit?  It's common knowledge that part of the motivation for Columbus' journeys was to cut the Muslim middleman out of the spice trade, but you seem to be suggesting more personal to it.

[The Brain]

Started reading God's Shadow: Sultan Selim, His Ottoman Empire, and the Making of the Modern World by Alan Mikhail.

I haven't read much on the topic, and the first few chapters were pretty interesting. But then Mikhail devotes an entire chapter (or more) to how Christopher Columbus was motivated by anti-Muslim sentiment, and that this anti-Muslim sentiment provided the framework for how the West interacted with the peoples of the New World and outside of Europe in general.

It's an interesting perspective, but in my reading Mikhail doesn't do much to persuade the reader - he merely states it as a fact and muses a bit about it. So I put the book down.

*fingerguns temple* Put it down?

[Syt]

Amos in the show is middle aged. Wes Chatham is 43 years old.

38 in season 1. But point taken. I guess what throws me off is that he's described as balding in the book, and Wes looks a fair bit younger than his age.