May 2015 UK General Election Campaign.

[dps]

Thanks, Zanza. We had this discussion before. Britain wants to keep the freedoms that benefit it (capital and services, and to a lesser extent goods, as they no longer produce much) while curb the freedoms that benefit other countries (freedom of movement of workers). Sorry, it does not work like this.

How much do other countries actually benefit from free movement of workers?  As countries, that is--obviously it can benefit individual workers themselves.

[Zanza]

Thanks, Zanza. We had this discussion before. Britain wants to keep the freedoms that benefit it (capital and services, and to a lesser extent goods, as they no longer produce much) while curb the freedoms that benefit other countries (freedom of movement of workers). Sorry, it does not work like this.

How much do other countries actually benefit from free movement of workers?  As countries, that is--obviously it can benefit individual workers themselves.

How much do other countries actually benefit from free movement of goods, services and capital? As countries, that is -- obviously it can benefit individual persons or companies.

[Admiral Yi]

Countries benefit from the ability to move their unemployed to jobs somewhere else.  On the other countries suffer from the ability of talented people to seek better prospects somewhere else.

[Valmy]

ah yes, the old unitarist trick: invoke "parfum de racisme" when there's talk of independence.

Um ok I just praised Scotland for not being racist. You turn around and say that was insulting to them. I ask why and you claim that I am invoking some sort of trick out of some 'unitarist' bogeyman conspiracy I am apart of? Ok whatever...

Look dude Scotland is traditionally divided by deep linguistic, ethnic, and religious divides with centuries of violent antagonism between them. According to you it should not even be a country since according to you Belgium is an artificial creation. Furthermore there has been lots of movement of peoples inside the UK and lots of immigration into Scotland over the years. The Scottish have handled this very well, I was praising them for it. I do not think there is an ethnic component to this movement. So why you are drawing up insane conspiracy theories about me is total garbage.

I have always been one hundred percent clear on what I consider a legitimate reason for independence: when the rights of the citizens are being abused. Their individual rights, not 'collective rights' which I reject the concept of. And that is it. You demonstrate that to me and I will support an independence movement. What circumstances would it take for you to support a 'unitarist' movement? Are there any? We just had an election where a clear majority of the Scottish voted for Union so clearly popular will is no concern of yours. What is it then?

[Valmy]

How much do other countries actually benefit from free movement of goods, services and capital? As countries, that is -- obviously it can benefit individual persons or companies.

It makes economic activity more efficient and will benefit their neighborhood in the long-term. In the short term it can be very destabilizing though.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Thanks, Zanza. We had this discussion before. Britain wants to keep the freedoms that benefit it (capital and services, and to a lesser extent goods, as they no longer produce much) while curb the freedoms that benefit other countries (freedom of movement of workers). Sorry, it does not work like this.

I don't agree that this is what Britain wants at all, apart from the general point that like all countries the UK is pretty selfish.

The real problem is that the tory party is dysfunctional on the EU with a large component that want out at any cost. Others are pragmatic and, like other sensible people in Europe, want to stay in but improve the EU. Cameron has had to promise a referendum to keep that wing of his party in line. I don't see that a referendum is necessarily bad, the anti-EU crowd need to be shown that there is a majority in favour of the EU. Cameron wants to come away with a few fig-leaves from his "renegotiations" so that he can ensure victory in thre referendum, I would imagine that Merkel will do what she can for him because it is in all our interests for the UK to remain within the EU.

At a personal level I'm rather shocked that immigration from other parts of the EU is deemed to be so bad. I regard it as a good thing that we have a growing workforce and seem to be such a desirable place to live and work. The caveat to that is that the pressure on housing, healthcare, education etc is quite heavy and is particularly affecting poorer Britons.............but surely the solution to that is to build more infrastructure rather than moan about success?

[Zanza]

The problem is that Britain seems to be entirely negative about this. They could suggest a freer market for services for example. Or come up with defense initiatives. Or push for CETA and TTIP. But all they seem to do is moan about immigrants and unspecific problems with the Brussels bureaucracy.

To accommodate Cameron, they will tinker with the rules on who can receive welfare in other countries. Not sure what else they can give him. Not a veto right for national parliaments or changing the Treaty preamble. I also doubt it will be a completely new treaty. There is very little appetite for that and the time line is not realistic.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I'm not really sure what to think about Cameron. I'm tempted to say that he is a very poor PM, but I think we have to admit he was dealt a poor set of cards and so far all is going reasonably well (growing economy, "No" vote in the Scotland referendum, UK still in the EU). Now that he has a majority perhaps things will improve, or perhaps he will be free to demonstrate almost unimaginable realms of incompetence 

[Warspite]

The problem is that Britain seems to be entirely negative about this. They could suggest a freer market for services for example. Or come up with defense initiatives. Or push for CETA and TTIP. But all they seem to do is moan about immigrants and unspecific problems with the Brussels bureaucracy.

Which of these things, apart from defence initiatives, is the UK not pushing for?

[Brazen]

Stats on general election voter turnout from 1945 to 2015. Given that this year seemed to attract more public interest than recent elections, I was expecting it to be higher. Turns out that was only in Scotland. http://www.ukpolitical.info/Turnout45.htm

[Valmy]

Wow your voter turnouts are amazing. We haven't seen anything like that since...um... How do you do it?

Hell even Northern Ireland's would be nice.

Edit: I checked. It was 1900. That's right, a time when only men could vote.

[Valmy]

My thoughts exactly

I don't know if agreeing with the Daily Mail is a good thing Mono.

[celedhring]

Wow your voter turnouts are amazing. We haven't seen anything like that since...um... How do you do it?

Hell even Northern Ireland's would be nice.

Edit: I checked. It was 1900. That's right, a time when only men could vote.

We average 70%+ for general elections in Spain. We haven't been a democratic country for that long so admittedly we're still not as jaded.

[Liep]

70%+? Pfft, that might be admirable for local council elections.

[The Brain]

Our turnout is >80%.