11 dead in French satirical magazine shooting

[Jacob]

Why does Malthus hate French-speakers so much?

He funds his stroller habit from oppressing French-speakers. And as you know, you tend to hate what you oppress, and vice versa; especially if you make money from it.

[mongers]

The issue, though, is not poverty alone (or even poverty plus living in a ghetto) - it is poverty plus a sense of seperation from and antagonism with the majority society, that makes for a population more willing to listen to ideological radicals.

This doesn't explain the Saudi 9/11 hijackers, or Osama bin Laden.

It seems like alienation is a pretty good explanation for those guys as well, though, even if did not spring from the ghettos.

Cart before horse, wanting to commit mass murder of innocent civilians will tend to alienate you from the mass of humanity ?

[Razgovory]

Dissafected Western Muslims is one source of support; pissed off traditional Muslims already in the ME is another. The first is more worrying, even if the second was more responsible for 9/11.

It's reasonable to ask whether France has a particular problem with the former as well given that polls show 16% support for ISIS in France, increasing to 27% among the young. If it does, what are the causes.

I'm fairly sure 'insufficient secularism' is low on the list.

To ask such a question would be victim blaming.

[Duque de Bragança]

Dissafected Western Muslims is one source of support; pissed off traditional Muslims already in the ME is another. The first is more worrying, even if the second was more responsible for 9/11.

It's reasonable to ask whether France has a particular problem with the former as well given that polls show 16% support for ISIS in France, increasing to 27% among the young. If it does, what are the causes.

I'm fairly sure 'insufficient secularism' is low on the list.

I don't believe that polls show 16% support now given the recent attack, it was reported they showed it but I really wonder if the people asked really understood in the first case. It's not like there are 16% of Muslims and every one of them supports Daesh/Isis/Isil/whatever.

edit: so it was a poll ordered by Russia Today/Russian news agency Rossiya Segodnya, with only 3% are very favourable (those would be the real pro-Daesh), the other 12% as somewhat favourable. Most people probably did not understand, knew or cared about ISIS. Some might have decided to play a prank on the poll institute. Colour me skeptical.

http://rt.com/news/181076-isis-islam-militans-france/

[11B4V]

Is there a magazine in the US that publishes content as racey/imflamitory as Charlie Hebdo? If not, then why is that?

Pictured: Female police officer killed in second Paris shooting was '27-year-old rookie who dreamed of serving her country'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2901670/Gunman-arrested-Paris-police-officers-seriously-wounded.html

[mongers]

Shall we discuss how alienated future SS camp guards felt growing up in interwar central Europe?

[CountDeMoney]

It's reasonable to ask whether France has a particular problem with the former as well given that polls show 16% support for ISIS in France, increasing to 27% among the young. If it does, what are the causes.

I'm fairly sure 'insufficient secularism' is low on the list.

"Insufficient employment" doesn't help.  It's no secret this generation of Muslim immigrants are having a much tougher time becoming successfully assimilated into the French economy as the late-50s/early 60s decolonization generation did. 

[Sheilbh]

"Insufficient employment" doesn't help.  It's no secret this generation of Muslim immigrants are having a much tougher time becoming successfully assimilated into the French economy as the late-50s/early 60s decolonization generation did.

I agree. At the risk of developing a Marti-Piketty fascination, I'm currently reading 'The French Intifada' which is precisely about this.

[Sheilbh]

The list of revenge attacks is depressingly long, though luckily no-one's been seriously hurt

[Duque de Bragança]

It's reasonable to ask whether France has a particular problem with the former as well given that polls show 16% support for ISIS in France, increasing to 27% among the young. If it does, what are the causes.

I'm fairly sure 'insufficient secularism' is low on the list.

"Insufficient employment" doesn't help.  It's no secret this generation of Muslim immigrants are having a much tougher time becoming successfully assimilated into the French economy as the late-50s/early 60s decolonization generation did.

There's some truth to it, but back then, successfully assimilated into the French economy meant working hard, longer hours than French people, for less. Also being invisible on a society level, so no hallal food anywhere, no islamic scarf (unseen till the end of '80s). Not to mention living in shanty towns which were only replaced by the huge social housing projects in the '70s, so sinister today but a huge progress back then. Don't think the youths are interested by that, even if work were plentiful again.

[Duque de Bragança]

The list of revenge attacks is depressingly long, though luckily no-one's been seriously hurt

This reminds me what the government said about the previous Christmas market car and police precinct attacks, it's only a series of isolated incidents committed by lunatics. One should not stigmatise.

[Jacob]

Cart before horse, wanting to commit mass murder of innocent civilians will tend to alienate you from the mass of humanity ?

Well, yes, wanting to commit mass murder of innocent civilians will tend to alienate you from the mass of humanity, no question.

However, I'm working from the assumption that no-one is born wanting to commit mass murder of innocent civilians. So what we're discussing, I thought, was how someone would move from not wanting to, to wanting to.

And I think that alienation is a significant factor there.

So no, not cart before horse I don't think.

[mongers]

Cart before horse, wanting to commit mass murder of innocent civilians will tend to alienate you from the mass of humanity ?

Well, yes, wanting to commit mass murder of innocent civilians will tend to alienate you from the mass of humanity, no question.

However, I'm working from the assumption that no-one is born wanting to commit mass murder of innocent civilians. So what we're discussing, I thought, was how someone would move from not wanting to, to wanting to.

And I think that alienation is a significant factor there.

So no, not cart before horse I don't think.

But what if some of them are brought up to believe that way of conducting yourself is the correct one?

I wonder what take Saudi Arabian primary school eduction has on these issues?

[Jacob]

Shall we discuss how alienated future SS camp guards felt growing up in interwar central Europe?

If it is of interest to you, I suppose we could.

However, I don't think any parallels are that instructive (though I guess we won't know unless we dive into it).

Presumably the reason we're looking at alienation is that we're trying to figure out the mechanism by which young men (and it's usually young men) enact, or attempt to enact, mass murder in the name of radical Islam.

We could, I suppose, say that the primary mechanism is Islam itself, and that all Muslims are with the terrorists. That would mean that Yi would be incorrect when he says he knows no-one who thinks like that.

Personally I wouldn't want to prove Yi wrong on this.

[Jacob]

But what if some of them are brought up to believe that way of conducting yourself is the correct one?

Then that's pretty fucked up. I'd be interested in looking at things that caused someone to be brought up like that. Personally, I expect it's something more nuanced than "Islam."

I wonder what take Saudi Arabian primary school eduction has on these issues?

I have no idea.