Europe's Populist Left

[Capetan Mihali]

You're boring the shit out of us, mono.

[alfred russel]

You're boring the shit out of us, mono.

He is helping me get in my next article for Black Helicopter Watch Magazine.

I'm titling it, "Chinese Government Official States Preference for Global Currency Union".

[MadImmortalMan]

I prefer a currency union of all the countries on Earth.  The World's central bank will appear to be an omni-present council of vagueness appointed by the UN, but is actually an AI that resides on the back of the moon and is designed with instruction to reach zero global inflation.

Must have catapults that shoot big rocks onto the Earth when 60% debt to GDP is reached. 

[Sheilbh]

So apparently that leaked statement was never agreed to by all parties. Another was but Varoufakis and his deputies were negative on it and Tsipras also vetoed.

Edit: Actually other statement may not have been agreed.

A line from the Economist 'officials say that the ministers' next meeting, on Monday, will be Greece's last chance to yield to their demands.' Yay democracy.

[Tamas]

So apparently that leaked statement was never agreed to by all parties. Another was but Varoufakis and his deputies were negative on it and Tsipras also vetoed.

A line from the Economist 'officials say that the ministers' next meeting, on Monday, will be Greece's last chance to yield to their demands.' Yay democracy.

At least that is good against moral hazard. If you loan money, pay it back. If you don't, suffer the consequences.

[Sheilbh]

At least that is good against moral hazard. If you loan money, pay it back. If you don't, suffer the consequences.

Since the abolition of debtors' prisons, moral hazard cuts both ways. When a country of 11 million people and a GDP of €175 billion ends up with a debt of around €320 billion I'd suggest there's two sides that have made mistakes.

So far Greek money outflows have been far smaller than people had worried. Which is good.

People still seem reasonably optimistic about a deal though. I found this chart of one stat interesting, of just how tepid Europe's 'recovery' has been:

[dps]

Since the abolition of debtors' prisons, moral hazard cuts both ways. When a country of 11 million people and a GDP of €175 billion ends up with a debt of around €320 billion I'd suggest there's two sides that have made mistakes

It's really not that different than the foreclosure crisis in the US a few years ago.  Turns out that making loans to people who aren't going to be able to pay them back isn't all that smart.

[grumbler]

You're boring the shit out of us, mono.

He is helping me get in my next article for Black Helicopter Watch Magazine.

I'm titling it, "Chinese Government Official States Preference for Global Currency Union".

I wish I'd said that.

[Eddie Teach]

I prefer "High-ranking Chinese Government Official..."

[Zanza]

A line from the Economist 'officials say that the ministers' next meeting, on Monday, will be Greece's last chance to yield to their demands.' Yay democracy.

The other ministers are just as democratically legitimated as the Greeks. Or is there some rule that whoever had the last election somehow has priority in negotiations?

[alfred russel]

Since the abolition of debtors' prisons, moral hazard cuts both ways. When a country of 11 million people and a GDP of €175 billion ends up with a debt of around €320 billion I'd suggest there's two sides that have made mistakes.

Yeah, but that doesn't put one side under obligation to keep lending money to the other.

In the days of the debtors prisons, the Great Powers would be sending fleets to Athens to secure their country's interests.

[Admiral Yi]

And if that mindset becomes institutionalized it certainly won't help the next time Merkele is asked to drag her constituents kicking and screaming to a bailout.

You understand I hope Shelf, that it's always more enjoyable to spend a loan than it is to repay it.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah, but that doesn't put one side under obligation to keep lending money to the other.

Sure but no-one (aside from the creditors) really wants that.

In the days of the debtors prisons, the Great Powers would be sending fleets to Athens to secure their country's interests.

We've moved on. Nowadays we just have to orchestrate a run on the banks.

And if that mindset becomes institutionalized it certainly won't help the next time Merkele is asked to drag her constituents kicking and screaming to a bailout.

What mindset do you mean?

You understand I hope Shelf, that it's always more enjoyable to spend a loan than it is to repay it.

Sure. But if you're a creditor whose lent so much on such terms that there's no chance of them repaying it then you've made as much, if not more of a mistake, as the debtor.

[Admiral Yi]

What mindset do you mean?

The mindset that the creditor of a failed program country has a moral obligation to forgive the loans.

[Valmy]

Sure. But if you're a creditor whose lent so much on such terms that there's no chance of them repaying it then you've made as much, if not more of a mistake, as the debtor.

You and Marty both made this point and I guess I don't understand why it is significant.  So what?  Is this not self evident?