Uber drivers are workers, UK supreme court rules

Started by garbon, October 02, 2014, 07:30:41 AM

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Savonarola

Quote from: Tyr on October 03, 2014, 01:06:51 PM
It always bemuses me to read of the situation in the US where lots of teachers are unemployed.
In the UK they're desperate for teachers. Its the job people who can't get a job doing something else do.

Just like America.   :)

;)

One thing to keep in mind about the United States is that with our federal system teachers are paid differently in different states.  In Michigan teachers make, on average, about $20,000 more than their counterparts here in Florida.  Consequently it's a lot easier to find a teaching job here in FLA than it is back in Michigan.
In Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace—and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock

The Brain

Teachers in Sweden make working class money. But a profession that has displayed deteriorating productivity for decades shouldn't do better.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

garbon

I like that SVU had its episode where they portrayed services like Uber as facilitating prostitution rings.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

garbon

http://www.buzzfeed.com/johanabhuiyan/uber-drivers-protest-in-sf-and-la-while-drivers-in-ny-and-lo

QuoteUber Drivers Protest In SF And LA While Drivers In NY And London Strike

Outside of Uber's headquarters, drivers frustrated with some of the on-demand ride company's practices gathered Wednesday to protest for what they believe are their rights as partners of the firm. They were joined in Los Angeles by drivers protesting outside local Uber offices, including a strong representation from members of the California App-Based Drivers Association (CADA).

In New York and London, Uber drivers networks encouraged drivers to go on a work strike in solidarity with the protesters. According to reports from the London Uber drivers network, in many locations there were no UberX cars available throughout the day.

The complaints, much like those of New York drivers in protests this past summer, were concerned with the now-permanent fare cuts that made UberX rides cheaper than a taxi in their respective cities, as well as the company's no-tip policy and the commission the company makes off each fare.

"UberX is said to include a 20% tip," an UberX driver and speaker yelled to the crowd. "Uber is charging a commission on those tips, this is tip theft. That's illegal. Uber black cars are not even allowed to accept tips. We're service workers, we work on tips. Uber kept prices artificially low by asking drivers not to tip."

But the list of demands from the organizers of the protest addressed more than simple differences in income between what drivers make now and how much they made before the fare cuts. Many of the demands dealt with the overall treatment and protection of both drivers and their passengers.

In addition to demanding that Uber lower its commission to 15% — "drivers bear the costs of this multi-billion dollar company," the list of demands reads — and return to 2013 fares, the drivers demanded that the company stop changing the approved vehicle list for Uber's luxury car service Uber Black. They also demanded that Uber: create an in-app feature that allows customers to tip; provide job security for those who participate in its car financing program; develop a system of recourse for drivers are facing deactivation; improve background checks; require comments from passengers who give drivers less than a five-star rating; provide job security for drivers who invest in wheelchair accessible vehicles; and provide coverage under Uber's insurance in the case of accident.

"This goes beyond securing the rights of drivers as independent contractors," one UberX driver, who was one of the speakers at the protest and did not wish to be named, told BuzzFeed News.

"They've dropped fares so low that it's not worth it anymore," the driver said. "Drivers are driving around frustrated and who are they taking it out on? It endangers passengers."

L.A.-based UberX Driver and CADA representative Ayda Valilar said she has to work 100 hours a week to make the same amount she once did.

"When I started it was $2.50 a mile and now it's $1.10 a mile in LA," Valilar told BuzzFeed News. "We can't maintain our cars, we become like taxi car drivers, basically. Everything people didn't want, we're becoming. We're not even making minimum wage. I personally work 100 hours a week. It's very dangerous. I know many people who have crashed just because they were working so many hours just to make ends meet. The hours that people work has to be regulated. Not everyone is reasonable enough to say I really can't take it anymore this week, I can't drive."

Uber, however, refutes these statements. The company contends that in an hour, a driver can make an average of $25.79, and that the no-tip policy actually brings more riders to the platform. "Riders choose Uber for a seamless experience — no cash, no math, no hassle. More riders means more money in drivers' pockets," a leaflet handed out by an Uber spokesperson to BuzzFeed News reads. Uber reported that in the past week there were more trips than in all of 2012.

Denny Bailey, an UberX driver who didn't attend the protest, said the concerns these drivers have are legitimate, but that their energy could be spent elsewhere.

"I don't think Uber has done anything wrong," Bailey told BuzzFeed News when reached by phone.

"There are things that maybe they can do better, but it's pretty good. We're all testing the waters. There are legitimate complaints but [Uber has] addressed them in the past. It's a tricky balancing act — it's the driver versus the consumers. It sounds bad on the surface, 'Oh well, we were making $45 an hour, now it's $38 an hour.' To say they're inhibiting our ability to earn money or whatever is not necessarily true. I did think there's a point that lowering the fares will be detrimental...but again the market will balance itself out."

In New York, many drivers continue to fight to make Uber change its policies rather than leave the company because they say they understand Uber is the industry leader and its policies impact the taxi industry as a whole. In San Francisco, however, several of the drivers BuzzFeed News spoke with indicated that they planned to leave Uber and continue to fight for the rights of drivers because Uber's policies illustrate many of the problems with the tech industry as a whole.

"Companies like Uber have created this two-tier system," an UberX driver and speaker told BuzzFeed News. "On top, you have the white collar workers who sit in their ivory towers and are well compensated and have good benefits, and on the bottom you have the frontline workers with lower pay and no benefits and are seen as a cost."

But the UberX driver did admit that many Uber drivers took pride in being independent contractors, as it affords them the flexibility and autonomy of owning their own businesses.

In a statement provided to BuzzFeed News, Uber argued just that.

"Four years ago, the only choice for drivers was to start the day more than $100 in the hole to rent a taxi – today, hundreds of thousands of drivers take to the road on the Uber platform," the statement read. "Uber powers entrepreneurship by providing the tools to build a small business. The thousands of drivers driving on the platform at this moment are a testament to that opportunity."

A driver who works for Lyft, Uber, and Sidecar who asked not to be named agreed that companies like Uber and Lyft don't prioritize the independent contractors working for their services.

"It's an industry predicated on disposable employees," he told BuzzFeed News. "I like that they have the little sign about the self-driving cars. Travis and Uber people have been really clear that drivers don't really mean anything to them. Once they're able to get rid of them [and] that excess cost, they're going to be totally stoked about it. Part of the frustration comes out of the stupid fare war with Lyft. For Uber, they can charge $1.00 for every ride and still make $.20. So they can go as low as they want. Lyft at least gives that fake pretense that they care, which is bullshit...but Uber is pretty clear about being like, 'We're this strong company and we're going to do whatever we can to make money.'"

...

Is it normal to have widespread protests/strikes by your own employees within 5 years of starting up? :unsure:
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

CountDeMoney

Quote from: The Brain on October 02, 2014, 04:11:07 PM
In a land of opportunity desperate poverty is self-inflicted.

I eliminated my own job position to increase the stock value of my 401k before I cashed it out. PROFIT!

CountDeMoney

Quote from: garbon on October 03, 2014, 03:38:54 PM
I like that SVU had its episode where they portrayed services like Uber as facilitating prostitution rings.

Awesome idea.  I'm sure it's happening somewhere right now, along with drug trafficking.

I wonder what the insurance issues would be for being an armed uber driver.  Bet that would be one hell of an added-value premium in Baltimore, especially for out of towners who've binge-watched The Wire and are afraid of black people.

grumbler

Quote from: garbon on October 23, 2014, 07:03:05 AM
Is it normal to have widespread protests/strikes by your own employees within 5 years of starting up? :unsure: 

For new technologies, especially where the "employees" are not employees, but rather independent operators?  Yes.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

CountDeMoney

Quote from: grumbler on October 23, 2014, 09:52:07 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 23, 2014, 07:03:05 AM
Is it normal to have widespread protests/strikes by your own employees within 5 years of starting up? :unsure: 

For new technologies, especially where the "employees" are not employees, but rather independent operators?  Yes.

But archaic concepts like salaries, benefits and pensions stifle economic growth, g.

Admiral Yi

If they don't like the terms offered, they should do something else.

derspiess

"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

garbon

Oh Uber...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/new-delhi-bans-american-online-cab-company-uber-after-rape-by-its-driver/2014/12/08/c775f589-05d0-48cc-a996-c60206e6d3fb_story.html

QuoteNew Delhi bans Uber over rape accusations

Transportation officials in India's capital banned the online car service Uber on Monday after one of its drivers was arrested on suspicion of raping a passenger.

The move was a blow for Uber in the huge Indian market, as well as another public relations headache.

The San Francisco-based company, which operates in 45 countries, has come under fire for what some consider a lax attitude toward protecting the private data of its customers and ensuring passenger safety.

In New Delhi, protesters on Monday demanded greater protections for women as police called in an Uber official for questioning about the company's screening methods, saying it had not taken simple security measures, such as fingerprinting the accused cabdriver or conducting a background check.

Shiv Kumar Yadav, 32, was arrested Saturday on suspicion of sexually assaulting a passenger who was on her way home from a party the previous night. Police said he was acquitted of rape charges in a 2011 incident.

In a statement, the Delhi Transport Department condemned the "unfortunate and heinous crime," banning Uber from operating in the city. The service continues in five other Indian cities.

The alleged rape came as a chilling reminder of Delhi's continued inability to provide safe commuting options for women at night — even after the fatal gang rape of a woman aboard a moving bus two years ago.

Uber said in a statement Sunday that safety was its top "priority."

"What happened over the weekend in New Delhi is horrific," the statement said. "Our entire team's hearts go out to the victim of this despicable crime."

Uber's chief executive, Travis Kalanick, stopped short of acknowledging systemic company failings. A statement by Kalanick deflected some of the blame on India's licensing norms, saying Uber will "work with the government to establish clear background checks currently absent in their commercial transportation licensing programs."

Police said their probe has revealed shortcomings in the company's Indian operations, which apparently were so bare-bones that investigators were unable to locate the phone number or address of Uber's India office on the company's Web site when the rape complaint was made.

A report in the newspaper Indian Express said police had to finally download the Uber application and book a cab to locate the Gurgaon address of the company.

Uber has been under scrutiny almost since its 2009 inception. Traditional cab companies deem it an illegal taxi service. But despite such opposition, Uber has managed to expand aggressively throughout the United States, as well as globally since opening in Paris in 2011. But there have been growing pains overseas, in addition to criticism at home: On Monday, a Dutch court banned Uber from taking bookings on its smartphone app, threatening stiff fines for violations.

Now critics are asking whether the company grew too quickly and jeopardized passenger safety in favor of expansion.

Last month, meanwhile, an Uber executive suggested that he would pay to dig up information on the personal lives of journalists writing negative things about Uber, comments that appeared to target a Silicon Valley writer who had been chronicling the sexual misconduct of Uber drivers in the United States.

The Indian woman who was allegedly assaulted, an unidentified 27-year-old working at a tax consulting firm in a New Delhi suburb, booked the Uber cab through her cellphone app late Friday to return home, police said. The driver took the woman to a deserted area and raped her, authorities said. She also has accused him of punching and slapping her.

When he finally dropped her home, authorities said, he threatened to come back and kill her if she went to the police. But the woman managed to take a picture of the car with her cellphone after getting out of the vehicle.


Reports of the alleged attack Friday shocked many Indians who have come to rely on cabs booked through companies that use GPS trackers or through smartphone applications. The option is widely regarded as safer than public transportation because the passenger's cab location can be tracked in real time.

"Sleek App, sleeker cars till one ride opens a cab of worms," read a headline in the Indian Express on Monday.

Kunal Lalani, president of the Association of Radio Taxis in India, said the incident is likely to affect the country's burgeoning business of private cabs. Uber has been operating in India since last year.

"Certainly there will be an immediate impact on the business and create trust deficit," Lalani said.

Protesters angry about yet another high-profile incident of violence against women demonstrated outside a police station in New Delhi on Monday.

"We need to invest in safe public transport and services for women. In its absence, we are relying on several private cab companies without knowing who is monitoring or regulating them," said Suneeta Dhar, head of Jagori, a nonprofit that works with women.

For many women in the city, the incident is a wake-up call even though they already take additional precautions when using a private cab.

"I take the vehicle number and driver's number beforehand and pass it on to my family," said Sonam Vardhan, 26, who works with an e-commerce company and commutes by private cabs every day.


QuoteUber vs. Portland: City Hall denies ticketing rideshare drivers, but it's gathering evidence

It appears that Portland's code police still haven't been able to successfully book a ride from an unpermitted Uber driver.

The tech blog Geekwire has backpedaled from a report saying City Hall had levied "hefty fines" against several of the clandestine rideshare company's drivers over the weekend.

"No fines have been written," said Bryan Hockaday, a policy advisor to city Commissioner Steve Novick, who oversees transportation issues. "But we are pulling together documentation of violations."

In other words, after a failed attempt to throw the book at an Uber driver in front of the local media on Friday night, city code enforcers apparently haven't had any luck over the past three days with setting up a face-to-face ride.

Drivers repeatedly canceled reservations made by code enforcers on Friday night. The officers resorted to grabbing screenshots of Uber driver information -- license plate numbers, names and vehicle makes -- on their smartphones.

"An Uber driver agreeing to pick up a passenger in the city of Portland constitutes a violation of city code," said Frank Dufay, the city's private-for-hire-transportation manager. Dufay said his office will attempt to send citations with the information.

Hockaday said the screenshots "are part of the documentation" of violations.

Without little warning or approval from City Hall, the company rolled out UberX at 5 p.m. Friday. The service allows passengers to use an app to get a ride from drivers who use their own cars as low-cost de facto taxis. Uber cars usually arrive in less than 10 minutes and offer fares that are 35 percent lower than those of traditional taxis.

Arguing that the city's taxi regulations are antiquated, Uber has told its drivers to keep rolling, even if they're fined by the police. "Uber will pay the fines and any impoundment costs" that its drivers rack up while picking up customers, said Eva Behrend, an Uber spokeswoman.

Meanwhile, Geekwire posted a correction to its earlier report about drivers and the company being ticketed for nearly $4,000 per violation:

Editor's note: This story was edited to reflect that penalties have not yet been issued, but that city officials have "documented" drivers in violation of regulations.

Brooke Steger, Uber's regional general manager, didn't know why city officers might be having a tough time booking a ride with Uber's smartphone app.

She said Portlanders took "thousands of trips" using Uber over the weekend. "We don't release actual numbers," she said.

Hockaday said more information about the city's enforcement plans will be released Monday afternoon.

https://www.portlandoregon.gov/transportation/article/511920

QuoteCity of Portland sues Uber for operating illegal, unregulated transportation service

The City of Portland has filed suit against Uber Technologies Inc. in Multnomah County Circuit Court, after documenting that the California-based company started operating private-for hire transportation services in the city.

The lawsuit seeks declaratory relief that Uber is subject to and in violation of the City of Portland's Private for Hire Transportation Regulations and Administrative Rules. The City's lawsuit is asking for a declaration by the court that Uber is subject to the City's regulations. The lawsuit also asks the Court to order Uber to stop operating in Portland until it is in compliance with the City's safety, health and consumer protection rules.

Transportation Director Leah Treat on Monday morning issued a Cease and Desist Order to Uber. The order was cited in the lawsuit.

"I am hereby directing that Uber Technologies Inc.... or any other Uber affiliate entity immediately cease and desist operating within the City of Portland until such time as appropriate permits are obtained and Uber is in full compliance with the requirements of Portland City Code Chapter 16.40," Treat wrote. "Please alert all Uber-affiliated drivers that they are to cease and desist."

"Our main concern is public health and safety, because the state invested in the cities the responsibility to do that," Mayor Charlie Hales said. "Beyond that, though, is the issue of fairness. Taxi cab companies follow rules on public health and safety. So do hotels and restaurants and construction companies and scores of other service providers. Because everyone agrees: good regulations make for a safer community. Uber disagrees, so we're seeking a court injunction."

City Commissioner Steve Novick, who oversees PBOT, said the City is prepared to issue civil and criminal penalties against Uber and its drivers for operating without required permits and inspections. The City of Portland requires permits for drivers and companies that offer taxi or executive sedan service within the city limits.

"If Uber thinks there should be no maximum price on what they charge Portlanders, they should make their case to the Portland City Council," Novick said. "If Uber thinks taxi companies shouldn't have to serve people with disabilities, they should make their case. If Uber thinks taxis should not have to have proper insurance in case of a crash, they should tell us why we should allow that."

Uber drivers accepted and then later cancelled two rides requested by Portland Bureau of Transportation enforcement officials on Friday night. Uber drivers provided three rides to City enforcement officials on Saturday night. Uber has widely publicized that it was operating in Portland over the weekend.

The Transportation Bureau issued two civil penalties to Uber on Monday, one for operating without a company permit and another for operating without a vehicle permit.

As the City documents Uber's unpermitted operations in Portland, the Bureau will issue warnings to Uber drivers and penalties to the company. Drivers found to be repeatedly operating without a permit may be subject to civil and criminal penalties.

An attorney representing the City of Portland also issued a Cease and Desist Order Monday to Uber for unauthorized use of the image of the historic "Portland, Oregon" sign in Old Town in its advertising. The sign's image is a trademark registered with the State of Oregon. If Uber does not cease all commercial use of the sign by 5 p.m. Thursday, Dec. 11, the City is prepared to seek a court order, damages and attorney's fees.

The Transportation Bureau encourages the public to report illegal taxi operations, and complaints about any private for hire transportation provider to 503-865-2486 or by email to [email protected]

See attachments: • CityofPortlandvUber • CityofPortlandCeaseandDesist • TrademarkCeaseAndDesist • FrequentlyAskedQuestions

Background on Private for Hire Transportation in Portland Portland and Vancouver, Wash. are the only cities in the metropolitan area that regulate taxi companies. Uber recently started operating in Vancouver without permits and in other area cities that do not regulate taxis.

Since the City Council moved taxi regulation from the Revenue Bureau to PBOT, effective July 1, Commissioner Novick and transportation officials started a top-to-bottom review intended to update the City's taxi and executive sedan regulations.

Commissioner Novick is convening a task force to reexamine existing taxi regulations and see if those regulations should be restructured while protecting consumers and drivers.

It is illegal for motorists to pick up passengers for a fee in the Portland city limits without proper permits. Taxis that pick up passengers outside of Portland may drop off those passengers in Portland without a permit.

Anyone in Portland can use the smartphone app Curb to call taxis from Broadway and Radio Cab, which are two of the largest permitted taxi companies in the city.

The three most common violations of City Code that city enforcement officers find, and which Uber and its drivers may be in violation of, are:

Code Section Requirement 1st Offense 2nd Offense Subsequent Offenses 16.40.090 A. LPT and Taxi Driver Permit $1,000 $2,500 $5,000 16.40.150 A. Taxi Company Permit $1,500 $2,500 $5,000 16.40.190 B. Taxiplate $1,250 $2,500 $5,000 Full City Code Citation: http://www.portlandonline.com/auditor/?c=28593#cid_408153

The Limited Passenger Transportation and Taxi Driver Permit requirements ensure the public that drivers have passed annual City-required annual background checks.

The Taxi Company Permit requirement ensures the public that licensed companies have appropriate commercial insurance that will cover passengers in the event of a crash, and that the companies' drivers have annual City-required background checks and inspected vehicles.

The Taxiplate display requirement calls for posting of a metal plate on the vehicle with an identification number. It helps customers and enforcement officers identify permitted operators.

We've also put together a collection of frequently asked questions about taxi and other private for hire transportation regulations in Portland.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Ideologue

Are teachers underpaid?  Don't they usually make like $40-60k?

This isn't me doing my education schtick (which is mostly directed at higher ed), but what should they be paid?  Because I'd like to make $50k.  I think that's pretty fair for a job with a lot of vacation time, and where technological and technical advances aren't likely to totally upend your skillset.
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

garbon

Quote from: Ideologue on December 08, 2014, 08:39:28 PM
Are teachers underpaid?  Don't they usually make like $40-60k?

Many (most?) of my teacher's in high school had 2nd jobs during the school year.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Ideologue

Quote from: garbon on December 08, 2014, 08:41:05 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on December 08, 2014, 08:39:28 PM
Are teachers underpaid?  Don't they usually make like $40-60k?

Many (most?) of my teacher's in high school had 2nd jobs during the school year.

That's a non-answer.  My mom drove buses.  Doesn't mean she didn't get paid.
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Ideologue on December 08, 2014, 08:39:28 PM
Are teachers underpaid?  Don't they usually make like $40-60k?

In Iowa (right to work(tm)) newbies make 25 and the average is 40.  In Georgia (another RTW), my brother has maxed out the pay scale at 65.

At the time of the Scott Walker brouhaha, Wisconsin average was 80 and NY average was 78.

My brother always makes some more teaching summer school.