Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[Sheilbh]

Seeing that Belarus might also be kicked off SWIFT, which makes sense. I can't think of any argument why all sanctions on Russia from this point basically shouldn't also automatically apply to Belarus - is there something I'm missing?

[Syt]

The minister president of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Manuela Schwesig (SPD), has been criticized in the past for her close and non-public discussions and connections to Russia over the Nordstream pipeline project. The pipeline would make landfall in her state, and she had a number of personal meetings with Gerhard Schröder and other representatives of the Russian side of the deal without disclosing much, if anything, that was being discussed. There's also an ominous "climate protection" fund, financed by Gazprom that's supposedly meant to preserve the environment in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern but the small print reveals that the main goal is completion of Nordstream 2. She's also an opponent of the more sceptical course of her party towards Russia.

Before that background, she posted a picture of the M-V state parliament illuminated in Ukrainian colors, with the caption, "Solidarity with Ukraine. An important sign from the state parliament."

To which the Ukrainian ambassador to Germany replies, "The hypocrisy makes me puke."

[Syt]

[DGuller]

Seeing that Belarus might also be kicked off SWIFT, which makes sense. I can't think of any argument why all sanctions on Russia from this point basically shouldn't also automatically apply to Belarus - is there something I'm missing?

I've been wondering about Belarus.  How strong is Putin's grip on Lukashenka's balls?  Thankfully the reports on the first day of Belorussian army being involved in the fighting appear to be false. 

Is there a possibility of Belarus pulling back from Russia if things go much worse?  It seems like a pipe dream, but surely both Lukashenka himself and the Belorussian people can't be seeing good sign for themselves watching what is happening south of the border.  If I were EU, I would consider a deal with the devil to pry Belarus away from Russia.

[Syt]

All parties having seats in Austria's parliament participated in the demonstration in support of Ukraine .... except the FPÖ. The FPÖ had instead called for participation in the anti-Covid protest.

[Admiral Yi]

Accepting Ukrainian refugees is a bit of a moral dilemma, as Ukraine has forbidden men aged 20-60 to leave, saying they must stay and fight.

Should we be aiding Ukrainian draft dodgers?

[Tamas]

Accepting Ukrainian refugees is a bit of a moral dilemma, as Ukraine has forbidden men aged 20-60 to leave, saying they must stay and fight.

Should we be aiding Ukrainian draft dodgers?

It is not the duty of other countries to start checking conscription laws. That's a weird angle, Yi.

[Admiral Yi]

It is not the duty of other countries to start checking conscription laws. That's a weird angle, Yi.

It's the angle of preferring Ukraine win.  Pretty normal angle.

[Tamas]

It is not the duty of other countries to start checking conscription laws. That's a weird angle, Yi.

It's the angle of preferring Ukraine win.  Pretty normal angle.

Filtering out men and shoving them back across the border would be very controversial, especially as the filtering out is already happening on the Ukrainian side.

[Admiral Yi]

Filtering out men and shoving them back across the border would be very controversial, especially as the filtering out is already happening on the Ukrainian side.

It would.  That's why I referred to it as a moral dilemma, and not a moral no brainer.

[Tamas]

Filtering out men and shoving them back across the border would be very controversial, especially as the filtering out is already happening on the Ukrainian side.

It would.  That's why I referred to it as a moral dilemma, and not a moral no brainer.

I don't see the dilemma. Blanket closing of borders for refugees so the probably <10% of them who are men can not leave is obviously not an option especially from a moral point of view, and trying to take over conscription-evaluation duties from Ukraine is entirely unrealistic from a practical point of view, so the only morally and practically valid option is to let everyone who is fleeing in, and let their conscience and the Ukrainian authorities deal with the rest.

[mongers]

It is not the duty of other countries to start checking conscription laws. That's a weird angle, Yi.

It's the angle of preferring Ukraine win.  Pretty normal angle.

Filtering out men and shoving them back across the border would be very controversial, especially as the filtering out is already happening on the Ukrainian side.

I've read reports of Romanian border guards not allowing most men to cross the border with women and children, but have made some exception.

[Zanza]

Saw a report from the Polish-Ukrainian border and at least there the Ukrainians did not let anybody pass, not just men. The Polish side was wide open.

[DGuller]

Saw a report from the Polish-Ukrainian border and at least there the Ukrainians did not let anybody pass, not just men. The Polish side was wide open.

From what I heard, the bureaucracy on the Ukrainian side is stupidly stifling.  Ukrainians may not be easing off the legal requirements for letting people go and not being able to handle applying them to so many people at once.  Maybe the best thing the allies can do is promise to deal with all the Ukrainian requirements on their own soil, like sending back conscription-age men, in exchange for increasing the throughput of refugees.

[Jacob]

Accepting Ukrainian refugees is a bit of a moral dilemma, as Ukraine has forbidden men aged 20-60 to leave, saying they must stay and fight.

Should we be aiding Ukrainian draft dodgers?

It is also possible that some people who flee will be women and children.