Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[Jacob]

The weird thing about Sweden at least is they're a freeloader whether in or out of NATO, there isn't really any situation in which the Swedish military would be useful in any conflict in which NATO was fighting.

You don't think they'd be useful in contesting the Baltic Sea and support Poland / Norway / Baltic nations?

[Jacob]

So apparently Anonymous has taken down the website of the Russian Defence ministry and are leaking personnel information: https://twitter.com/Justin_Ling/status/1497287380277022721?t=oxb2OQJxfa5algvxMh0MMw&s=19

Satisfying if true.

[Sheilbh]

Nothing. The internet armchair diplomats like to pile on Germany right now, partially well deserved of course. This particular faux outrage  though is meaningless drivel. Gov spokesperson is asked a hypothetical and gives vague answer. Nothing else.
Considering we housed Navalny, quite a few other Russian opposition members, Chechen leaders and gave asylum to like a million people from various regions in the world the last decade, is there any doubt that Zelenski would also get asylum if he needed it?

Johnson gave a very similar answer when he was asked if the UK would host a government-in-exile in the same way it did for the Baltic states during the Cold War and for many states during WW2 (most of whom we betrayed at Yalta - though that wasn't mentioned) - and he basically said that's not an issue. We're offering all the support we can to the government in Ukraine.

Not sure I agree - depends on context - but I don't have a strong need to argue it.

Yeah I wouldn't have interpreted it the way Yi has

I think this kind of consideration is very much missing the forest for the trees.

I'd say the opposite. I think Russia Today is an easy target that has minimal impact in the real world. We never shut down the Morning Star, the Daily Worker or any of the USSR-funded propaganda papers during the cold war because they didn't matter.

I think having western journalists in Russia is important and, from a UK perspective, the BBC presence there is essential in supporting the Russian and Ukrainian language World Service (there are plans to expand this to other languages in Russia).

In the UK RT's viewership is about 80,000 a day but the average viewer will watch for less than one minute which suggests they come across it while flicking - in the Guardian's phrase, "an audience comparable with an obscure satellite film channel." By contrast from a UK perspective I think the benefit of BBC (and other UK) journalists in Russia and the BBC Russian and Ukrainian language World Service vastly outweighs that.

It's similar to social media platforms - I think there's a stronger argument for getting them to stop working Russia and I think Russia's propaganda has been far more successful through that avenue than RT. But I'm aware the Russian state censor is right now imposing restrictions on access to Facebook which makes me inclined to think it's probably better keeping them open.

[Admiral Yi]

There's no law of physics that prevents Swedish troops from leaving Swedish territory.

[crazy canuck]

The weird thing about Sweden at least is they're a freeloader whether in or out of NATO, there isn't really any situation in which the Swedish military would be useful in any conflict in which NATO was fighting.

You don't think they'd be useful in contesting the Baltic Sea and support Poland / Norway / Baltic nations?

Not Western Euro enough for Otto's white nationalist tendencies.

[Admiral Yi]

Not sure I agree - depends on context - but I don't have a strong need to argue it.

Yeah I wouldn't have interpreted it the way Yi has

Jake opted out but you haven't.  So please give me a context in which "we will see" means "of course!"

[crazy canuck]

Not sure I agree - depends on context - but I don't have a strong need to argue it.

Yeah I wouldn't have interpreted it the way Yi has

Jake opted out but you haven't.  So please give me a context in which "we will see" means "of course!"

Its already been given, but you have block which prevents you from reading/comprehending it.

[Sheilbh]

Jake opted out but you haven't.  So please give me a context in which "we will see" means "of course!"

It doesn't. But it can mean "we will see" or I don't want to say anything that would undermine a government that is fighting to stay where it is.

Saying "no" is wrong, saying "yes" is basically saying you expect Ukraine to lose quite soon. So you want to say nothing: "we will see".

Edit: That video of Zelensky saying he's in Ukraine with translation - impressive leadership. I don't think there's a world leader who knows how they'd respond to a crisis like this but I think his response so far has been admirable (if possibly under-prepared as DG said):
https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1497273765297803270?s=20&t=EEuRZ3tCCQ8G2MUqp6KW_A

[Jacob]

Apparently, Russia is preparing sharp counter sanctions in response to the sanctions being levied on the country.

I can't wait to see what they are. Hopefully they'll hurt the Russian economy further. And if they hurt the West, that's fine too as it will only underscore the need to disentangle ourselves from Russia and accelerate the process.

[Zanza]

You could choose both. We will see at that time. And at that time, we will see that of course he will be granted asylum.

Come on dude. You know as well as I do that's not what "we will see" means.

The government spokesman actually said something like "this is not a question right now". The "let's see" was my attempt to represent the situation.  Obviously added confusion.

[Admiral Yi]

The government spokesman actually said something like "this is not a question right now".

OK.  Objection withdrawn.

[Zanza]

Apparently, Russia is preparing sharp counter sanctions in response to the sanctions being levied on the country.

I can't wait to see what they are. Hopefully they'll hurt the Russian economy further. And if they hurt the West, that's fine too as it will only underscore the need to disentangle ourselves from Russia and accelerate the process.

Blocking the import of Gucci handbags. 

[Syt]

After a Turkish cargo ship was hit by a Russian missile yesterday, today a Moldovan chemical tanker was hit 12 miles off Odessa, plus a Japanese one (under flag of Panama) that was anchored in the port of Pivdennyi to load grain.

[DGuller]

Apparently, Russia is preparing sharp counter sanctions in response to the sanctions being levied on the country.

I can't wait to see what they are. Hopefully they'll hurt the Russian economy further. And if they hurt the West, that's fine too as it will only underscore the need to disentangle ourselves from Russia and accelerate the process.

I agree, I think anything that Russia or even China do to make economic transactions more difficult with them for the West is ultimately doing the West a favor.  It might hurt in the short term, but in the long term the enemy is interrupting you while you're making a mistake.

[Tamas]

After a Turkish cargo ship was hit by a Russian missile yesterday, today a Moldovan chemical tanker was hit 12 miles off Odessa, plus a Japanese one (under flag of Panama) that was anchored in the port of Pivdennyi to load grain.

Russian navy lives up to its traditions?