Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[OttoVonBismarck]

And FWIW, knowing RT was a propaganda outlet, I would sometimes peruse it just to see what was there. They do produce content that isn't directly Russia related and that appears to be real journalism. The problem is the purpose of that content is not journalistic, it is to help burnish the image of RT as an organization so their propaganda is more effective.

[Jacob]

Like... Tyr... if you're a mask maker and you make really well-crafted pretty masks for a murderer to wear when they go out and kill innocent people, you should stop providing those masks to the murderer. Even if the masks themselves are really quite pretty and don't, themselves, kill people.

[Josquius]

Except thats not what a lot of these docs are doing?
They often put out stuff that has nothing to do with Russia at all.

Thus - by your own words - providing credibility to RT.

Which, then, provides credibility to their pro-Putin propaganda.

Sure.
But this is more in the domain of anyone doing any business with Russia was helping the regime than being a paid propegandist to be forever damned.
If you're a small time documentary maker and someone comes along offering to buy your work then it's unlikely you can afford to be picky. Especially back when doing business with Russia was accepted.
I'd be cursing a huge list of businesses before those guys.

[Sheilbh]

Slightly concerned Poland's getting a little out ahead of their skis right now:

Alec Luhn
@ASLuhn
Bulgaria will give Ukraine 14 Su-25 & 16 MiG-29 fighter jets, Poland will give it 28 MiG-29s & Slovakia will give it 12 MiG-29s. More importantly--given Russian missile strikes on military airbases--they can fly missions over Ukraine from Poland

As far as I can see hose Polish bases would be legitimate targets for Russia in a NATO country.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Eh, I view agreeing to build a gas well in Russia differently than agreeing to work for a Russian state media firm that exists specifically to spread propaganda into the West and destabilize the West.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Slightly concerned Poland's getting a little out ahead of their skis right now:

Alec Luhn
@ASLuhn
Bulgaria will give Ukraine 14 Su-25 & 16 MiG-29 fighter jets, Poland will give it 28 MiG-29s & Slovakia will give it 12 MiG-29s. More importantly--given Russian missile strikes on military airbases--they can fly missions over Ukraine from Poland

As far as I can see hose Polish bases would be legitimate targets for Russia in a NATO country.

Under any rational understanding of the laws of war that makes Poland a co-belligerent. FWIW it will also mean we wouldn't necessarily be obligated to help protect Poland if Russia slaps back--you can't assert Article V if you are the aggressor.

[DGuller]

What if Poland decide to enter the war, full stop, is there any problem with it?   NATO knows that Article 5 wouldn't apply, Putin knows that it wouldn't apply, is there any reason that their voluntarily effort to intervene would lead to a nuclear exchange?

[The Brain]

Slightly concerned Poland's getting a little out ahead of their skis right now:

Alec Luhn
@ASLuhn
Bulgaria will give Ukraine 14 Su-25 & 16 MiG-29 fighter jets, Poland will give it 28 MiG-29s & Slovakia will give it 12 MiG-29s. More importantly--given Russian missile strikes on military airbases--they can fly missions over Ukraine from Poland

As far as I can see hose Polish bases would be legitimate targets for Russia in a NATO country.

Under any rational understanding of the laws of war that makes Poland a co-belligerent.

Quoted for use in Great Northern War discussions.

[Tamas]

What if Poland decide to enter the war, full stop, is there any problem with it?   NATO knows that Article 5 wouldn't apply, Putin knows that it wouldn't apply, is there any reason that their voluntarily effort to intervene would lead to a nuclear exchange?

Well, yes? Let's assume Poland ends up winning big time and decide to go full Commonwealth or whatever and Putin stops them with a few tactical nukes.

[The Brain]

What if Poland decide to enter the war, full stop, is there any problem with it?   NATO knows that Article 5 wouldn't apply, Putin knows that it wouldn't apply, is there any reason that their voluntarily effort to intervene would lead to a nuclear exchange?

Well, yes? Let's assume Poland ends up winning big time and decide to go full Commonwealth or whatever and Putin stops them with a few tactical nukes.

Exchange with what? Poland doesn't have nukes.

[OttoVonBismarck]

What if Poland decide to enter the war, full stop, is there any problem with it?  NATO knows that Article 5 wouldn't apply, Putin knows that it wouldn't apply, is there any reason that their voluntarily effort to intervene would lead to a nuclear exchange?

if Poland wanted to attack Russia in Ukraine I do not believe it would necessarily lead to a nuclear exchange (in fact I strongly believe it would not), nor would it obligate NATO help as I understand it. I don't know that it is wise, though. But I don't actually know that it's unwise, frankly Poland's military isn't a joke and is a lot stronger than Ukraine's, they'd probably be able to drive the Russians out with the help of the Ukrainians. Obviously it would come at a huge cost in Polish lives.

[Tamas]

What if Poland decide to enter the war, full stop, is there any problem with it?   NATO knows that Article 5 wouldn't apply, Putin knows that it wouldn't apply, is there any reason that their voluntarily effort to intervene would lead to a nuclear exchange?

Well, yes? Let's assume Poland ends up winning big time and decide to go full Commonwealth or whatever and Putin stops them with a few tactical nukes.

Exchange with what? Poland doesn't have nukes.

What would the US do in such situation? Shrug and say the Poles asked for it? Might be a hard sell politically.

[The Brain]

What if Poland decide to enter the war, full stop, is there any problem with it?   NATO knows that Article 5 wouldn't apply, Putin knows that it wouldn't apply, is there any reason that their voluntarily effort to intervene would lead to a nuclear exchange?

Well, yes? Let's assume Poland ends up winning big time and decide to go full Commonwealth or whatever and Putin stops them with a few tactical nukes.

Exchange with what? Poland doesn't have nukes.

What would the US do in such situation? Shrug and say the Poles asked for it? Might be a hard sell politically.

They would enter a nuclear armageddon in a situation where they don't have any treaty obligations to do so? I think public opinion can be made to accept continued existence.

[Jacob]

The idea of a NATO country going to war with Russia... I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the possible implications here. Feels like things are beginning to really gather momentum for a potential spin out of control.

I'm not saying Poland shouldn't do it... but... the potential repercussions are significant to say the least.

[Admiral Yi]

I'm pretty sure someone will talk Poland off the ledge.