Tom Perkins' big idea: The rich should get more votes

[alfred russel]

You cannot argue that the outcome of the last few decades can possibly be ok for human society.

The last few of decades have probably been the best decades in the history of humanity.

For whom?

Humanity.

I'm not saying there aren't human conflicts, but we have relative peace, a rising global middle class, improved global life expectancies, declining illiteracy, etc.

[Neil]

But isn't it over?  I felt that it was over.

Then just as an academic excercise explain to me how the rich guy getting richer *is* an example of warfare for the reason Berkut described, but my examples are not.  In fact, mine should be even more egregious, since his rich guy only increased his potential political influence, whereas mine increased their actual influence.

I don't think that the rich guy getting richer is an example of class warfare.  The rich guy getting richer and then using the various means at his disposal to disenfranchise and damage the majority and prevent them from exercising their rights and freedoms is an example of class warfare.  There also needs to be an element of purposefulness to it.  Therefore, forbidding poor people from voting, restricting their ability to access justice or banning fox hunting are all examples of class warfare.  Turning 18 is not.

[Neil]

You cannot argue that the outcome of the last few decades can possibly be ok for human society.

The last few of decades have probably been the best decades in the history of humanity.

For whom?

Humanity.

I'm not saying there aren't human conflicts, but we have relative peace, a rising global middle class, improved global life expectancies, declining illiteracy, etc.

Which would be great things if not for the whole end of civilization thing.

[Sheilbh]

Humanity.

I'm not saying there aren't human conflicts, but we have relative peace, a rising global middle class, improved global life expectancies, declining illiteracy, etc.

Yeah. This is fair. I remember seeing a really interesting chart of income inequality and income growth in the world. Basically the very, very top of super-rich are doing very well. The poorest are doing well. The very broad middle (Asia and Latin America) are doing well. But the top sort of 20% haven't done well, which is basically the West.

From a global perspective we're the people paid $300 000 a year to do the 1%'s taxes, so it's difficult to say it's really awful that we're not getting richer. But from our perspective, it's awful that we're not getting richer.

And the super-rich is an interesting change. You're not even rich if you're a millionaire anymore (in London, often you're just a home owner):
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/05/the-rise-and-rise-of-the-super-rich/257069/
These piece is brilliant on the global elite - Davos man:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/01/the-rise-of-the-new-global-elite/308343/

[CountDeMoney]

Most people who talk about "class war" don't actually mean bullets and such you know.

I could get with that.

[Admiral Yi]

I don't think that the rich guy getting richer is an example of class warfare.  The rich guy getting richer and then using the various means at his disposal to disenfranchise and damage the majority and prevent them from exercising their rights and freedoms is an example of class warfare.  There also needs to be an element of purposefulness to it.  Therefore, forbidding poor people from voting, restricting their ability to access justice or banning fox hunting are all examples of class warfare.  Turning 18 is not.

Then you disagree with Berkut.

[CountDeMoney]

The last few of decades have probably been the best decades in the history of humanity.

For whom?

Humanity.

I'm not saying there aren't human conflicts, but we have relative peace, a rising global middle class, improved global life expectancies, declining illiteracy, etc.

22% of American children under the age of 18 live under the poverty level, 25% of which are under the age of 5.  That is a needless and unacceptable humanity.

[The Brain]

What about American children above the age of 18?

[CountDeMoney]

It's their fault they're not making enough money, rawr.

[MadImmortalMan]

What about American children above the age of 18?

Obese

[Kleves]

Maybe the government should sell the rich extra votes at like $100,000 a pop. They're going to buy the votes indirectly anyway. 

[MadImmortalMan]

I'd sell my vote to Mr. Perkins for a hundred grand.

[Razgovory]

What makes you think that a system with property or income qualifications wouldn't hand out free money?

Reread my post that you responded to.

Political systems which have included a property or income qualification have tended to work for the benefit of the upper classes.  Political systems which have not have had a tendency to hand out more free money.  Both have their disadvantages.

My reading of that was the disadvantage of each system was mutually exclusive.  Otherwise, it reads like one system has two problem and the other has one problem.

[Razgovory]

Anyway, it goes toward my theory that libertarians and the like are sorta luke warm on the whole democracy thing.

[MadImmortalMan]

Anyway, it goes toward my theory that libertarians and the like are sorta luke warm on the whole democracy thing.

Anyone who cares more about rights than consensus would be by definition, wouldn't they?