Richard the Lion Heart, Cannibal

[Malthus]

There are, allegedly, accounts of cannibalism actually taking place during the first Crusade - mostly among the starving survivors of Peter the Hermit's gang. That it took place during the Third Crusade, and on the part of the king, though, is pretty clearly fictional. 

Yeah, the cannibalism angle is real big in Arab accounts.  I don't know think it was widespread through, and accounts like that are often second hand.

Well, it is hard to write a first-hand account, from inside the stewpot. 

My assumption is that cannibalism happened as it does whenever people are starving to death and there is no central authority to suppress it by force.

[Valmy]

Yeah, the cannibalism angle is real big in Arab accounts.  I don't know think it was widespread through, and accounts like that are often second hand.

Yeah it was really played up to show the barbarity of the invaders.  I saw this surreal documentary about the Crusades where some Arab historian was acting like it was some sort of planned act of terrorism to shock the Arabs into surrender or something.  Dude was as mad about it as if it happened last Tuesday instead of 900 years ago.

[Malthus]

Yeah, the cannibalism angle is real big in Arab accounts.  I don't know think it was widespread through, and accounts like that are often second hand.

Yeah it was really played up to show the barbarity of the invaders.  I saw this surreal documentary about the Crusades where some Arab historian was acting like it was some sort of planned act of terrorism to shock the Arabs into surrender or something.  Dude was as mad about it as if it happened last Tuesday instead of 900 years ago.

Arabs are like that with their history. 

But to be fair ... the (English) Romance in my OP cites cannibalism expressly used as terrorism to shock Arabs into surrender. While it is obviously fiction in that case, it does demonstrate that the idea wasn't as horrifying to Europeans of the 12th century as it would be today - presumably, the audience was supposed to *approve* of this. 

[Ed Anger]

How does this effect Richard's dice roll modifier in combat?

[Malthus]

How does this effect Richard's dice roll modifier in combat?

If he rolls the highest number, he eats his opponent.

[Darth Wagtaros]

2d4 life drain powers.  Similar to a ghoul.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah it was really played up to show the barbarity of the invaders.  I saw this surreal documentary about the Crusades where some Arab historian was acting like it was some sort of planned act of terrorism to shock the Arabs into surrender or something.

I recommend 'The Crusades Through Arab Eyes' on this which is a great and easy read:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Crusades-Through-Arab-Eyes/dp/0805208984

I've read a bit about the cannibalism in the First Crusade and there are reports of it on both sides and hints in the Christian chronicles that it was more widespread than they're saying. But there's Christian sources that describe the Crusaders as boiling adults and impaling children on spits. Deliberate or not I think the rumours of how barbaric the Crusaders were would have had an impact - and my understanding is that there are historians who think the sources do suggest there was a deliberate psychological element.

Dude was as mad about it as if it happened last Tuesday instead of 900 years ago.

Well it's still relevant. After the Crusades it's overwhelmingly Mongols and Turks and Europeans ruling the Arab world, arguably they ended the sort of peak of Arab civilisation. Also the really striking thing is the number of times the Frankish states are able to survive because the Muslim kingdoms fall apart and fight among themselves, often wanting the Franks as allies.

[Malthus]

I wonder if the 'Cannibal Richard' story represents some sort of conflation of the First and Third Crusades in the minds of the romance-writers. I'm pretty certain that, no matter how brutal Richard was, he didn't actually tuck into a nice fillet of Saracen. 

[Sheilbh]

Yeah I think you're right. I think you've got a real event, an element of psychological warfare - and a joke - that have all been merged in the Romance about Richard.

As I say there's hints that cannibalism was a bit more widespread than is recorded. For example after long sieges there's a fair few Christian sources who sort of say 'after many days of excessive hunger finally Acre was seized and what happened there, stays there' regularly.

But then there is the siege of Maara which is just after the year long siege of Antioch and it's interesting because about a dozen Christian sources basically say that they ate infidels. So you get descriptions of adults cut up and boiled and infants impaled on spikes, or of crusaders who were too hungry to wait for the meat to roast - there's one chronicler who roughly says 'we were driven to eat Saracens and even dogs'

After that the Muslim sources go mental. Their basic theme is: 'they starved outside Antioch for a year to take it; they took Maara and ate the population. WTF!' So I think there may have been a psychological element to it and I've read there are academics who have a similar idea, but with far more substantiation. The crusaders resorted to cannibalism more than once, but at least once it seems they publicised it.

What I find a little curious is what they called it? 'Cannibalism' comes from the Caribs doesn't it? So was there a word for it then and was it less shocking in 11-13th century Europe than, say, to Columbus/early European colonisers?

[Ideologue]

Richard the Prion-Diseased.

[Malthus]

Richard the Prion-Diseased.

By most accounts, Richard's crusade did not reach New Guinea ... 

[Valmy]

Richard the Prion-Diseased.

By most accounts, Richard's crusade did not reach New Guinea ... 

This is soon to be disproved by Gavin Menzies' new book:

1192: The Year Richard Discovered New Guinea

[Ideologue]

Richard the Prion-Diseased.

By most accounts, Richard's crusade did not reach New Guinea ... 

Lots of people have JCD.

It is weird that in pop culture it's so often depicted that cannibalism = kuru, which isn't any more true than McDonald's = mad cow.

[Malthus]

Richard the Prion-Diseased.

By most accounts, Richard's crusade did not reach New Guinea ... 

Lots of people have JCD.

It is weird that in pop culture it's so often depicted that cannibalism = kuru, which isn't any more true than McDonald's = mad cow.

I think you mean CJD, or Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease.

JDC is most definitely uncommon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Canon_Law 

Kuru is associated with cannibalism and CJD generally isn't. Richard could munch on Saracens with relative impunity, as CJD is very uncommon ...

[Ideologue]

I thought it was Jakob-Cruetzfeldt.  Well, anyway.

A genetic CJD sufferer is how kuru was initially introduced into the three New Guinean tribal populations that had high rates of kuru, iirc.