What's the Languish perspective on Gen. Petraeus?

[Alcibiades]

I've read a few books involving him, most recently the Gamble by Thomas Ricks......  The books and the media go a long way to glorify him, but I've heard some less than great news about him behind the scenes.


Apparently he was as 'career orientated' as could be as an officer in the army, which you military folks will know is a bad thing.  Very cut throat and took all credit for his underlings while not hesitating to throw them under the bus whilst forming a 'cult' of followers around him.

For instance, his whole strategy in Iraq was based off a colonel's success in the North of Iraq which we'll never hear or learn about since he gets all the credit.  It's really all just conjecture, but since his fall more and more is slowly leaking out.   



So who knows.   

Interesting stuff. 

Is this stuff you are hearing through the military grapevine?

I was fortunate enough to sit and chat with a pair of full bird colonels last spring, he was one of the topics that came up.

[Barrister]

Yeah, I am not sure you ever succeed in a largely peacetime (meaning non-total war army where there are a lot more upper level officers than there are combat slots for them), professional army like the US Army without stepping on a lot of toes and making a lot of enemies on the way up.

My personal opinion on Patreus won't really be influenced by some people coming out with nasty books about what a jerk he was - I just assume that to be true to begin with.

Obviously I know nothing of the inner workings of a modern military...

...but coming from a career in the civillian public service, that's not usually what I see.  Now, the people who get promoted are definitely playing political games, butit's more a question of developing allies, being sure to widely distribute favours, definitely a side of empire-building, but the good ones do it without stepping on anyones toes.

The ones who do step on toes and make enemies don't last.

[Malthus]

Yeah, I am not sure you ever succeed in a largely peacetime (meaning non-total war army where there are a lot more upper level officers than there are combat slots for them), professional army like the US Army without stepping on a lot of toes and making a lot of enemies on the way up.

My personal opinion on Patreus won't really be influenced by some people coming out with nasty books about what a jerk he was - I just assume that to be true to begin with.

Heh, agreed. A country doesn't need generals who are nice. It needs generals who win. 

'GOOD-MORNING; good-morning!' the General said   
When we met him last week on our way to the line.   
Now the soldiers he smiled at are most of 'em dead,   
And we're cursing his staff for incompetent swine.   
'He's a cheery old card,' grunted Harry to Jack         
As they slogged up to Arras with rifle and pack.

    .    .    .    .   
But he did for them both by his plan of attack.

- Sassoon, "The General"


Of course, if their jerkishness allows then to thrive in rank despite military incompetence, that's a different story. Also, if their jerkishness ruins morale.

[crazy canuck]

I hear this phrase from time to time, what is a full bird colonel?

[Barrister]

I hear this phrase from time to time, what is a full bird colonel?

As opposed to Lt. Colonel.

[Berkut]

I hear this phrase from time to time, what is a full bird colonel?

Lt. Colonel insignia is a silver star.






Full colonel insignia is an eagle



Hence...

[Ed Anger]

CC never watched MASH.

[Alcibiades]

I hear this phrase from time to time, what is a full bird colonel?

Lt. Colonel insignia is a silver star.






Full colonel insignia is an eagle



Hence...

Full colonel is in the grade of an 0-6, lieutenant colonel is an O-5.  Both are referred to as colonel.  Wouldn't sound like a big difference but the respect and responsibilities between the two are a lot bigger, so "worth" distinguishing between.

[Queequeg]

He was the American version of Julius Caesar. The Soldiers loved him. He could have burned his political capital and marched on Washington to save the Republic and reestablish free-market capitalism. Instead he decided to get a job that would in time open his way to the Whitehouse, and Obama ordered his goons to scoop his emails for any incriminating evidence to take him out.

Wrong Roman.  How do you pass psych evals?

[Razgovory]

He was the American version of Julius Caesar. The Soldiers loved him. He could have burned his political capital and marched on Washington to save the Republic and reestablish free-market capitalism. Instead he decided to get a job that would in time open his way to the Whitehouse, and Obama ordered his goons to scoop his emails for any incriminating evidence to take him out.

Wrong Roman.  How do you pass psych evals?

It's no use.  I think only Viking, who has professional experience penetrating dense materials, could get something through that thick skull.

[Eddie Teach]

How do you pass psych evals?

Well, to start with he casts his heroes as Julius Caesar rather than Sulla.

[11B4V]

I hear this phrase from time to time, what is a full bird colonel?

Lt. Colonel insignia is a silver star.






Full colonel insignia is an eagle



Hence...

Come on B,

Silver Oakleaf, a silver star is a Brigadier General for the army

[Queequeg]

How do you pass psych evals?

Well, to start with he casts his heroes as Julius Caesar rather than Sulla.

Sulla marched in to Rome at the head of a coup to try to restore his version of the traditional order to a Republic.  Can't really say Caesar did that.

[Warspite]

I think Petraeus can be credited with a significant contribution to turning Iraq's security situation around. He was also a key high-level patron for a cadre of officers who argued for a new operational and tactical approach, the importance of which is often easy to forget. Try getting anything disruptive done in any organisation without an energetic senior backer.

Yes, he was politically astute and knew how to work the media well, but above a certain level of seniority, the art of generalship begins to take on political overtones, particularly when it comes to winning bureaucratic struggles back home as well as the exercise of theatre command.

I've met him a couple of times; he seems like a genuinely decent man. On one trip through the UK, he took the time to participate in a private seminar with students and young researchers. It was all off the record, so there was no PR gain for him, and none of us were politically connected - but he took the meeting seriously, was generous with his time in a packed schedule, and gave answers as frank as anyone in his position could realistically do. I think that said a lot about him.

Of course, his record is mixed, and the Broadwell affair was a silly indiscretion. But the counter-cult of Petraeus went a little too far, I felt, in trying to peg him back down.

[Ed Anger]

Sulla.